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Tamiya Spitfire MK XVIe


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Rob

No one to blame but myself. The AK paints are now on their way and hopefully by the weekend the Spit will be repainted. I've learned my lesson and before committing to air brushing a second time, I'll do a color test to be sure.

Thank you for the info regarding Ammo by Mig and AK, I knew there was a connection in the past buy not that much.

 

 

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Sorry to hear about the colour issues Peter, ironically,  today I was looking up the history of AK, Ammo etc. This  how I understand it, AK started as a partnership with Mig and another. All paints were manufactured by Vallejo. Mig left to setup Ammo and AK split from  Vallejo and now producing their own  range as is Ammo……

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Phil

Live and learn and after 74 years, I'm still learning. Thanks for help filling in their history as it does add a lot to understanding their product lines. 

The past three years or so, I've become so conscious of all the safety issues of model paints, my 'always' routine is to wear a very good respirator and shoot in my paint booth, no matter what the paint type.  I keep bouncing back and forth between lacquers and acrylics mainly on the color issue and for which medium shoots best for me: lacquer wins hands down. Of course, if I had my choice and if the full range of Model Master Enamels were readily available, I would use them 110% of the time, but those days are gone. back in the day, I loved Pactra Enamels but they are long gone as well.

 

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Hi Peter

I've used Ammo paints extensively and the AK real colours on my Cheetah build and as Rob says the AK paints are very similar to Tamiya whereas the Ammo ones are far more like Vallejo, although in my experience a lot easier to work with. I've had great results with both but the Ammo finish is a bit fragile and needs careful handling after completion while the AK stuff seems bombproof.

I wonder if your issues with the Ammo colours relates to their attempt to 'scale effect' the colours straight from the bottle as I sometimes find them also a little 'different' but I've never been too hung up exactness so have generally just gone with it. Results are looking good so far anyway! 👍

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Hi Gus, much appreciated.

Thank you for your thoughts on Mig and AK paints. White I've never used AK Real Colors (I do use their Real Metals), I've used Ammo by Mig for years and no issues with them at all. I'm just not sure why the two colors I used from their RAF WWI Late paint set are just so different then the Tamiya paint colors but I guess that is the way with all paint brands having different interpretations of the colors. Shame on me for not doing a quick test before or at least right before going at it with the Spit. I'm sure if I wasn't trying to match two models in color that I had already built, I never would have known the difference.

 

 

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BACKTRACKING

STRIPPING THE SPIT BACK TO PLASTIC

Mentally regrouping the troops and having made the decision to strip the upper color coats off, as the Ammo by Mig Ocean Gray and Dark Green just didn’t look right and didn’t match my Tamiya Mossie and Spit Mk IXc. I tried in vain to order the three Tamiya acrylic colors I had previously used: XF-81, XF-82 and XF-83 from my go to online vendors, none of which had all three colors in stock. My not so local hobby shop only had the Medium Sea Gray, which I bought. I ordered the needed three colors from AK Real Colors Lacquer Line and when they arrived, the Dark Green looked good, the Ocean Gray looked too dark and now I had the Tamiya Medium Sea Gray for the undersides. I found in my paint stash a bottle of Mr Color 362 Ocean Gray and will test to see which Ocean Gray I’ll use.

I normally strip paint off with Mr Color Self Leveling Thinners but because almost all the filler I used was Mr Surfacer and I stood a good chance of removing it as well. My plan now was to wet sand the Spit with Tamiya 1000 & 3000 sanding sponges and then followed up with 70% Isopropanol Alcohol to clean up what I missed or couldn't remove.

At first, I was just going to remove the two upper colors and leave the primer as is, on the bottom of the Spit. A bit of thinking and this made no sense, as blending new and old would be a nightmare, so I stripped all the paint and primer off including the three of the four engine cowl panels. What I thought would take a few hours took two and a half full days of work to do.  I managed to snap off one of the wing tip trailing edges for a second time and this time had to scratch out a new tip. I’m just waiting for the Mr Surfacer dry and then I can clean up the repair, finish removing the paint from around canons inserts and its priming time again.   

I also managed to get a bit too close to the wind screen stripping paint and I’ll see how that goes when the masks are removed.

Oh, what fun.

 Just one image of the Spit, as she sits waiting for the repaint to start.

053q4n.jpg

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1 hour ago, Peterpools said:

BACKTRACKING

STRIPPING THE SPIT BACK TO PLASTIC

Mentally regrouping the troops and having made the decision to strip the upper color coats off, as the Ammo by Mig Ocean Gray and Dark Green just didn’t look right and didn’t match my Tamiya Mossie and Spit Mk IXc. I tried in vain to order the three Tamiya acrylic colors I had previously used: XF-81, XF-82 and XF-83 from my go to online vendors, none of which had all three colors in stock. My not so local hobby shop only had the Medium Sea Gray, which I bought. I ordered the needed three colors from AK Real Colors Lacquer Line and when they arrived, the Dark Green looked good, the Ocean Gray looked too dark and now I had the Tamiya Medium Sea Gray for the undersides. I found in my paint stash a bottle of Mr Color 362 Ocean Gray and will test to see which Ocean Gray I’ll use.

I normally strip paint off with Mr Color Self Leveling Thinners but because almost all the filler I used was Mr Surfacer and I stood a good chance of removing it as well. My plan now was to wet sand the Spit with Tamiya 1000 & 3000 sanding sponges and then followed up with 70% Isopropanol Alcohol to clean up what I missed or couldn't remove.

At first, I was just going to remove the two upper colors and leave the primer as is, on the bottom of the Spit. A bit of thinking and this made no sense, as blending new and old would be a nightmare, so I stripped all the paint and primer off including the three of the four engine cowl panels. What I thought would take a few hours took two and a half full days of work to do.  I managed to snap off one of the wing tip trailing edges for a second time and this time had to scratch out a new tip. I’m just waiting for the Mr Surfacer dry and then I can clean up the repair and its priming time again.   

I also managed to get a bit too close to the wind screen stripping paint and I’ll see how that goes when the masks are removed.

Oh, what fun.

 Just one image of the Spit, as she sits waiting for the repaint to start.

053q4n.jpg

As they say Peter, "ain't nothin' for a stepper"! You'll get it squared away and looking good in short order. :)

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I'm very sorry to hear about your bad adventures with the paint and with removing it the hard way. Luckily on your picture the Spit looks ready to go again, fingers crossed for the windshield.
My motto would have been final at this point. 'Skip it and don't strip it'

Cheers Rob

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Peter, probably a good call to strip the whole thing rather than leave it patchwork. 

If it's any consolation, I had to strip my XVI and my Mossie as they both needed repaints to make me happy. 

Carl

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2 hours ago, DocRob said:

I'm very sorry to hear about your bad adventures with the paint and with removing it the hard way. Luckily on your picture the Spit looks ready to go again, fingers crossed for the windshield.
My motto would have been final at this point. 'Skip it and don't strip it'

Cheers Rob

Thanks Rob

Since posting the update, I finished all the prep work, cleaned up the last remaining paint and shot on the new MRP Light Gray Primer, which is drying and looking pretty good. Found two small spots that the paint removing process removed some of the Mr Surfacer filler but that's it.  Once the primer is dry, I'll clean up the missing Mr Surfacer and it's cammo time again.

I'm with you and hoping there are no issues with the windscreen, but I'll cross that bridge when I up to it. originally, I thought about leaving the original paint, but the color drove me crazy, and I needed to correct.

 

 

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Peter,

     I'm sorry you had to strip your model.  But I understand if you're not happy with it.   If you can find 100% isopropanol alcohol, you will find it strips Tamiya paints and MRP lacquers with ease.  And...it's not 'hot' enough to harm the plastic.  I love the stuff!  There's no doubt in my mind, that had you used it, you would have save a lot of time.

I'm guessing you're not a paint mixer.  I thrive on it, and it saves me time and money because I don't have to go chasing hither, thither, and yon for little bottles of color in this new covid-upset world.  If you save your empty paint bottles, you can save your new colors easily.  All you have to do is experiment a little, and trust your eyes.  It doesn't take long at all.  Certainly not as long as UPS or the USPS.  And you might be able to use those AMMO paints instead of letting them go to waste.

Anyway...   just my 2 Cents. 

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Hi Gaz

Thank you for pointing me in a better direction when it comes to military paint colors. Yup, you hit the nail right on the head. For the most part, I try to find the colors I need straight from the bottle and will mix every once in a while, if what I need isn't made or not available. I'm not that good at mixing colors but need to work at it, as it would have saved me a lot of time and aggravation. I'm sure 100% isopropanol would have worked wonders but where do you find it? Best I have found in the past is 70% & 90% at times.

 

 

 

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Hi Peter,

I get my 96% iso from my local chemist here at home. You may have to source it from a similar vendor and not sure if there are an restrictions in your neck of the woods as far as it being a possible precursor for drug manufacture? If I may also suggest you look at SMS paints, an acrylic lacquer of Australian origin (similar to MRP)but found in a number of worldwide locations. There is an excellent range, premixed and matched for use straight out of the bottle. The inventor is very easy to contact and get advice.

https://www.scalemodeller.com.au

Regards,

Kent

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2 hours ago, Peterpools said:

Hi Gaz

Thank you for pointing me in a better direction when it comes to military paint colors. Yup, you hit the nail right on the head. For the most part, I try to find the colors I need straight from the bottle and will mix every once in a while, if what I need isn't made or not available. I'm not that good at mixing colors but need to work at it, as it would have saved me a lot of time and aggravation. I'm sure 100% isopropanol would have worked wonders but where do you find it? Best I have found in the past is 70% & 90% at times.

 

 

 

I actually get mine from a local hardware giant store in the paint department.  Amazon has it, too.  Though I'm not sure where it's shipping from.  Here is one at Home depot.  

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Max-Pro-10-oz-Isopropyl-Alcohol-Precision-All-Purpose-Cleaner-ISO-3467/319907805

 

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I go away on holiday for two weeks and it all goes wrong, but it looks like you have turned it around, I hate having to backtrack but once you see a problem it will always be there, it's better to bite the bullet and fix it, so you have done the right thing as far as I am concerned.

I'm pretty boring where paint is concerned Xtracolor and Sovereign Colourcoats are my tried and tested brands, if needed I still have a stash of Humbrol and Modelmaster enamels sittng in the study on standby as it were.

Cheers

Dennis

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Thanks Kent for the lead on finding the higher strength alcohol Gaz recommended. I definitely want to have a few bottles on hand for future use if needed. I've read some very good reviews on SMS paints and as a 'paint fanatic' I'll take a good look at them.

 

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Thanks Dennis

Sure hope there is no connection between you taking a vacation and my backtracking. Finally finished the removing a few nasty spots that seemed to resist and the gunport inserts. One last wipe down with a dampened alcohol gauze cloth and then it was paint booth time again. MRP Primer is on and drying now with the color coats to start hopefully later today. 

Just a shame neither Xtracolor and Sovereign Colourcoats are imported into the US and finding good enamels nearly impossible. My go to paints now is mostly lacquer based now but we all grew up shooting enamels and miss them.

 

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Sorry to hear about the total strip, there always some little gremlin lurking ready to bite you in ass in this hobby. Saying, that your finished model will be perfect as ever…….shooting paint on the Wildcat today, wish me luck….

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Thanks Phil, 100% my fault - I should have done a bit of testing on the colors as I had an uneasy feeling when I started to shoot them. Over the years, I've gotten to be quite a pro at stripping paint as I've done it more times then I care to remember.

Good luck with shooting the paint on the Wildcat. looking forward to seeing how you made out and I'm sure the results will be spot on the money.

 

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THE PAINT SHOP

CAMMO WORK PART ONE

It’s been a while since I broke any new ground on the Spitfire as I’ve been backtracking, removing all the cammo and primer right down to bare plastic. Finally, I’m now moving forward again, it surely feels like Ground Hog Day; been there and done that before. Starting right at the gate with MRP Light Gray Primer and inspection revealed some filler had been removed from one of the underside canon wing inserts. Mr Surfacer 500 was used to replace the lost filler, a gentle wet sanding,   clean up with MRP primer again and it was time to start the cammo.

I decided to try and venture into a bit of new ground and wanted to slightly weather the finish. I left the gray as is, will play with it later on while the Dark Green was mottle to break up the solid color look.

My POA was to do the upper surface cammo first, then concentrate on the undersides. First up would be the lighter of the two colors; RAF Ocean Gray 2. My AK paint order had arrived a few days earlier and first order of business was to compare the paint colors to my already built Tamiya Mossie and Spit cowl panels which are not attached to the models and I could hold them right up against the AK Paint sample. I was surprised to see the AK Ocean Gray was much darker then Tamiya XF-82 Ocean Gray RAF 2, I was trying to match and absolutely no hint of a bluish tint as I experienced with Ammo by Mig. Nope, I decided I wasn’t going to keep endlessly buying paints because I haven’t been able to match or buy Tamiya XF-82, realizing every manufacturer has their own mix for specific colors, which rarely match colors from other paint ranges.

Unbelievable, sitting almost right in front of me all this time in the Mr Color section of my paint stash was #362 Ocean Gray. While still a bit darker then Tamiya it was a good deal lighter then the AK rendering and that’s what I went with. Mr Color went on, no issues and dried so nicely overnight.

Next up would be AK RAF Dark Green 2 and the AK Real Color looked spot on. Never having used AK Real Colors before, I took a conservative approach, thinned the paint with Mr Color Self Leveling Thinners, 50/50 mix and no issues at all.  Absolutely a superb paint. The base upper cammo is done.

I had three choices on how to do the cammo:

Free hand but since chemo therapy and just getting older, I shake a bit too much these days.

Blue Tack … OK but never my first choice.

Masks (hard edge) – tape flush onto the surface and nope, won’t work here at all.

Masks (semi soft edge) and that’s what I went with.

Tamiya includes a separate color painting guide and excellent B&W painting guides as part of the instructions, which is what I used. I measured each of the drawing, determined the enlargement needed as the side view draws were to a different scale then the overhead drawing. I needed to make two trips to Staples for the enlargements and then went about cutting up the mask, adding small sections from other views so they would conform to the contours of the Spitfire. Attaching the masks required they be a uniform distance off the model so I could obtain a consistent feathered edge. I used 18mm Tamiya Tape cut in uniform small strips in length and width on my Infinity Cutting Matt and made a good few hundred of ‘rolled tape plugs). Getting all the masks on and in the correct location was another task that took a lot of time. All in all, it took nearly three days of work from the start of the masking process to being ready for the AK Dark Green paint. I attached one image of the masks after I removed them from the Spitfire and saved them – just in case.

Would I apply cammo this way again in the future: absolutely - just requires a good painting guide and lots of patience.

 

Up next the bottom portion of the cammo.

Thanks for checking in

 FwivzN.jpg

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Most of the paint masks I made and use for the cammo plus the paints being used.

DrZ6NO.jpg

 

 

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