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The changes for me include a reluctance to attend Mass, and a couple of cancelled flights out of state. Other than that, not too much change. I will say, however, the whole thing seems overblown and in many ways, preposterous. Frankly, I believe the measures taken to save us from the virus are more harmful than the disease itself. It's made me have  lower opinion of the news media (which was low to begin with) and a strong dislike for technocrats. 

I am more careful than ever to wash my hands frequently and to keep my hands away from my face which is something my mother taught me long ago as a child. Remember all the childhood crap one could catch in the 50's?

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They don't report the death numbers in the news anymore, if you've noticed. Those are on the decline. They throw out a big number to scare people, but when you crunch it down it becomes more reasonable and in keeping with the increase in testing now. That 57,000 per day they cite is across 30-40 states (number of states seems to depend on the news outlet) which averages about 1200-1300 per state. Looking at it that way the number doesn't seem as scary. Most states have populations in the millions, so even if that rate was to stay constant it would take a few years to get everyone exposed. Florida, with a population of 21 million but only 190,000 cases would need almost 44 years to expose every resident if the rate stays constant at 1300 per day. There are some unknown variables in all of this but you can see what I'm trying to get at. Even the information on the CDC's web site indicates this if you know how to read medicalese.

I have always maintained my distance from strangers as I think it rude to get up inside people's personal space so social distancing is easy for me. I wash my hands with soap but have never used sanitizer in my life. I have actually sat across a table from a coworker who was positive but I am negative even after that close proximity to the virus. It isn't airborne; it travels in saliva/mucous expelled from the body by coughing, sneezing, or spitting. You wouldn't like it if someone did any of that under normal circumstances and you shouldn't allow it now.

As far as the extreme call to lock down until a vaccine cure is found, number it is a virus that mutates so that is not going to happen or we would have vaccines to cure herpes, HIV, dengue, the common cold, normal influenza, Ebola, SARS, MERS-CoV, and even polio. All we can do is try to boost immunity to help your body fight off an infection, but we cannot cure any of them. People holding out for doctors to miraculously make it go away are fooling themselves. Those in the higher risk categories need to shelter if possible and we need to keep them safe, but the rest of us have to get back to fixing the other issues plaguing us right now. Still have to remember that the overwhelming number of people who get sick and die are over 70. Considering the average American male lifespan is down to 78 years right now most of those folks are on borrowed time anyway.

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3 hours ago, Slim_ShadyTwo said:

The changes for me include a reluctance to attend Mass, and a couple of cancelled flights out of state. Other than that, not too much change. I will say, however, the whole thing seems overblown and in many ways, preposterous. Frankly, I believe the measures taken to save us from the virus are more harmful than the disease itself. It's made me have  lower opinion of the news media (which was low to begin with) and a strong dislike for technocrats. 

I am more careful than ever to wash my hands frequently and to keep my hands away from my face which is something my mother taught me long ago as a child. Remember all the childhood crap one could catch in the 50's?

I've browsed these forums for years, never felt I had to comment. But I just cannot, in all good faith, let this pass.

130,000 dead Americans and counting, forecast to end up at around the 200,000 mark, certainly an undercount, and that's overblown?! Seriously?! Of those who have the disease and survive, many are left with damaged lungs for life, and that's before we know for certain the long term effects. WIthout lockdown, the number of dead Americans would number in the millions, is that not harmful in your eyes? As for having a low opinion of news media, you need to understand that if the news isn't to your liking, it doesn't make it any less valid. Or are you seriously suggesting that ALL of the mainstream media are "in on it"? Except Fox, of course.

 

 

47 minutes ago, [CAT]CplSlade said:

They don't report the death numbers in the news anymore, if you've noticed. Those are on the decline. They throw out a big number to scare people, but when you crunch it down it becomes more reasonable and in keeping with the increase in testing now. That 57,000 per day they cite is across 30-40 states (number of states seems to depend on the news outlet) which averages about 1200-1300 per state. Looking at it that way the number doesn't seem as scary. Most states have populations in the millions, so even if that rate was to stay constant it would take a few years to get everyone exposed. Florida, with a population of 21 million but only 190,000 cases would need almost 44 years to expose every resident if the rate stays constant at 1300 per day. There are some unknown variables in all of this but you can see what I'm trying to get at. Even the information on the CDC's web site indicates this if you know how to read medicalese.

I have always maintained my distance from strangers as I think it rude to get up inside people's personal space so social distancing is easy for me. I wash my hands with soap but have never used sanitizer in my life. I have actually sat across a table from a coworker who was positive but I am negative even after that close proximity to the virus. It isn't airborne; it travels in saliva/mucous expelled from the body by coughing, sneezing, or spitting. You wouldn't like it if someone did any of that under normal circumstances and you shouldn't allow it now.

As far as the extreme call to lock down until a vaccine cure is found, number it is a virus that mutates so that is not going to happen or we would have vaccines to cure herpes, HIV, dengue, the common cold, normal influenza, Ebola, SARS, MERS-CoV, and even polio. All we can do is try to boost immunity to help your body fight off an infection, but we cannot cure any of them. People holding out for doctors to miraculously make it go away are fooling themselves. Those in the higher risk categories need to shelter if possible and we need to keep them safe, but the rest of us have to get back to fixing the other issues plaguing us right now. Still have to remember that the overwhelming number of people who get sick and die are over 70. Considering the average American male lifespan is down to 78 years right now most of those folks are on borrowed time anyway.

The death numbers ARE in the news. Every day. But they've been pushed aside because of climbing infection numbers. The death numbers WILL increase again, as sure as night follows day. Even now, well in excess of 500 Americans are dying every single day. Needlessly. But the infection numbers take precedent at the moment because they give an expectation of what future death rates are likely to be. Already, the 14 day average of the fall in deaths was at -33%. It's now at -19% and falling. It will soon be positive again.

The 57,000 per day cited is NOT spread evenly across the states. That's part of the problem. If you had even a basic grasp of statistics, you'd know that. Spread out, the number are more manageable. Have 10,000 a day in a single state, day after day, and before long the growth will become almost vertical. Each person, on average, infects 2-3 other people. Do the math! Also, the rate doesn't stay constant. If left unchecked, Florida would end up more or less fully infected with a year or two. Exponential growth does that. Look at New York & New Jersey, that's what happened to them.

Of those diseases you list, how many are as contagious as Covid-19? None. Nowhere near. Some as more deadly if caught, but catching them is not easy at all. That's why, for example, Ebola blows itself out after a couple of months. That's the big problem. The answer ISN'T "Try to boost immunity". The answer is to avoid catching the virus. You cannot "boost your immunity" to Covid-19. It's not even possible. Just stay away from it. You are right that a cure may never appear, but never before has the entire world been working on a cure to a single virus, with money no object. Universities and corporations all over the world, working night & day. They make end up fruitless, but it's not a comparable situation to those diseases you list.

As for your last paragraph, I'm stunned. Let's assume you are 70 years old. Every single year of life is important. Every single day is. But you are suggesting that they are more or less doomed anyway? Really? Anyway, you are wrong. The average number of years life expectancy lost by each American victim is 11 years. Around a fifth of deaths are aged below 70. Prior to the virus, roughly 80% of all US deaths (outside of murder, accidents, suicide, etc) where to 65 years old and older people. This is roughly the same percentage that applies to the Coronavirus. In you eyes, does that mean ALL Americans aged over 70 are deemed "on borrowed time anyway" and not worth saving?!

I am seriously stunned by the attitude some people show, their reluctance to get educated and to believe what they want to believe, rather than following the science. Conspiracy theories are rampant. Absolute nonsense is held as fact. Facts are disparaged as "fake news". As an American, I'm embarassed by some of my fellow countrymen.

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There is plenty to say about the comments above by our American friends, but not now ... The hour is just a bit late for an European ;)    

Just a quick link to show that some states, like Florida, are NOT currently in the « 1300/day » average, but largely above... And uncontrolled or without mitigation measures, the R factor of the SARS-Cov-2 (the virus involved in the Covid-19 pandemic) is 3, which means an infected person will contaminate 3 others in average. The purpose of all mitigation measures, like wearing masks or social distancing, or quarantine for infected people, is to bring the R below 1.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Hubert

PS: btw, THERE IS a vaccine for polio, and has been one for decades. Which is why it’s not anymore the crippling disease it used to be 50 years ago.

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Thanks to the Polio vaccine, it is rarely seen these days

1 hour ago, HubertB said:

PS: btw, THERE IS a vaccine for polio, and has been one for decades. Which is why it’s not anymore the crippling disease it used to be 50 years ago.

I tell this to every Anti-Vaxer I meet; My Mother's twin brother died from Polio at age 6, because there was no vaccine available at the time. But for chance and the Grace of God, I would never have been born.

16 hours ago, [CAT]CplSlade said:

They don't report the death numbers in the news anymore, if you've noticed. Those are on the decline. They throw out a big number to scare people, but when you crunch it down it becomes more reasonable and in keeping with the increase in testing now. That 57,000 per day they cite is across 30-40 states (number of states seems to depend on the news outlet) which averages about 1200-1300 per state.

I guess it's all a matter of perspective. Victoria is getting up to 100 cases a day now, and the concern is great enough to have Police in surrounding States stopping vehicles at the border with Victorian registration and denying them thoroughfare. 

Furthermore; 57,000 people is the entire population of the regional Town I grew up in. Every Man, Woman and Child. That seriously boggles my mind.

S

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FWIW.................. I just wish this would stop and we can go back to 'normal', NOT the "New Normal" ( for the record, I HATE that term) just back to a simple life.......  back to the days of Opey and Andy Griffith, Raw Hide, My Three Son's, Gilligan's Island................... you remember, back to when we are ALL innocent, and the worst thing was if Betty didn't notice us in class or on the sports field,  or our math home work wasn't done after a weekend of bike riding with your buddies..................................... the good old days................ I digress though.....

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4 hours ago, HubertB said:

There is plenty to say about the comments above by our American friends, but not now ... The hour is just a bit late for an European ;)    

Just a quick link to show that some states, like Florida, are NOT currently in the « 1300/day » average, but largely above... And uncontrolled or without mitigation measures, the R factor of the SARS-Cov-2 (the virus involved in the Covid-19 pandemic) is 3, which means an infected person will contaminate 3 others in average. The purpose of all mitigation measures, like wearing masks or social distancing, or quarantine for infected people, is to bring the R below 1.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Hubert

PS: btw, THERE IS a vaccine for polio, and has been one for decades. Which is why it’s not anymore the crippling disease it used to be 50 years ago.

I know there is a vaccine, Hubert. I am not an idiot. The vaccine only provides a boost to immunity to lower your risk of getting it. But there is no CURE for it.

I am also aware of the Covid tracking sites; I frequent several of them every few days to keep tabs on how things are going. And if you knew as much about the demographics of the United States as you seem to know about everything else, then you know many of the areas hardest hit happen to be very densely populated and are often epicenters of disease. Say what you want about 'our American friends', but I don't presume to talk about the situation in Europe as I don't live there. Don't presume to know all about us as you don't live here.

 

Also, your link shows a graph which indicates deaths are in the decline since their peak in mid-April. Even as new cases develop.

 

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On 7/6/2020 at 3:50 AM, [CAT]CplSlade said:

I know there is a vaccine, Hubert. I am not an idiot. The vaccine only provides a boost to immunity to lower your risk of getting it. But there is no CURE for it.

I am also aware of the Covid tracking sites; I frequent several of them every few days to keep tabs on how things are going. And if you knew as much about the demographics of the United States as you seem to know about everything else, then you know many of the areas hardest hit happen to be very densely populated and are often epicenters of disease. Say what you want about 'our American friends', but I don't presume to talk about the situation in Europe as I don't live there. Don't presume to know all about us as you don't live here.

 

Also, your link shows a graph which indicates deaths are in the decline since their peak in mid-April. Even as new cases develop.

 

Apologies if I misread your statement there was no vaccine on polio.

You’re right, vaccines are there to trigger early immune response to the real virus when the body is attacked. In today’s world, a virus must cause enough Social disruption or cause enough deaths or crippling sequels to warrant the cost of researching a vaccine. Why is why we have vaccines - or research for them, like in the case of HIV - for lethal or incapacitating virus-triggered epidemics. I’d venture that developing a vaccine for SARS-Cov-2 has been demonstrated economically necessary and valid, which does not mean the research will necessarily succeed...

I’ll rest my case here about further comments. It seems the topic has become a far too sensitive and divisive political subject in the US for me to make comments from my European perspective, agreed on that.

And, even if we have perceived differences of opinion, I still consider all of you my friends, so no quotes needed ;)

Hubert

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Just to point out, the deaths are usually 3 to 6 weeks behind the spikes, so they will start to increase again. When the ICU's are filling and they are struggling to find beds, I hardly find that comforting.

I was supposed to go to Florida for training, but due to extreme spike in cases that has now been cancelled. I hardly think the rapid increase from 2oK a day to 57K in a week is just a "blip" but there we go.

At work now the precautions are quite severe, with masks required every flight, and the helicopter is misted and cleaned every time we carry pax and being EMS most our pax are patients... Though THANKFULLY not Covid yet.

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I was just wondering...

When you're wearing your mask, and you need to sneeze...

Do you whip your mask off and sneeze into your shoulder or elbow, or do you leave it on and snot into the mask, thereby ruining it? And does a sneezing fit of 3 or more change the decision? 

I'm finding it difficult to get consensus.

S

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9 minutes ago, Wumm said:

I was just wondering...

When you're wearing your mask, and you need to sneeze...

Do you whip your mask off and sneeze into your shoulder or elbow, or do you leave it on and snot into the mask, thereby ruining it? And does a sneezing fit of 3 or more change the decision? 

I'm finding it difficult to get consensus.

S

GREAT !  I never thought of that !!! , and I am soon to hit the sack, I suppose I will lay awake most of the night trying to figure that quandary out..:rolleyes:.... laying awake figuring , also with a mask on, can you get enough air to sneeze 3 or 4 times??? :o  In all fairness, it is a good question....

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26 minutes ago, Wumm said:

And does a sneezing fit of 3 or more change the decision? 

Back in grade school I was nearly sent to the office by our substitute teacher as I started having a sneezing fit. The class started counting every time I sneezed. She thought I was doing it on purpose and disrupting the class. The whole class as one said I never just once and that's just the way I sneezed. :huh:

As for the original question, I'm not really sure. I haven't sneezed with my mask on thankfully but like Jeff, you've got me thinking now. I'll ask Sue in the morning and see what she says. She's a research librarian for our public health system. 

Carl

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4 hours ago, Wumm said:

When you're wearing your mask, and you need to sneeze...

Just lucky that my usual allergy with lots of sneezing wasn't that bad this year. I would have been under quarantine the whole time ;).

Cheers Rob

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6 hours ago, DocRob said:

Just lucky that my usual allergy with lots of sneezing wasn't that bad this year. I would have been under quarantine the whole time ;).

Cheers Rob

Rob, you were lucky, here in B.C. it was brutal, and it nearly killed me..... I have never been so stuffed up, sneezing, it was terrible, and some days still is... usually slowed by now.... but not this year.......

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18 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Rob, you were lucky, here in B.C. it was brutal, and it nearly killed me..... I have never been so stuffed up, sneezing, it was terrible, and some days still is... usually slowed by now.... but not this year.......

Sorry to hear that Jeff, Allergies are a real pain. Mine became a lot better, when I left Berlin some years ago for my tiny Island. Here is far less pollution in the air and the plants seemingly don't affect me that much.

Cheers Rob

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23 minutes ago, DocRob said:

Sorry to hear that Jeff, Allergies are a real pain. Mine became a lot better, when I left Berlin some years ago for my tiny Island. Here is far less pollution in the air and the plants seemingly don't affect me that much.

Cheers Rob

It sure is uncomfortable for sure, a real curse sometimes, I have been here all my life and it is the cedar pollen that gets me the most, my Tahoe is red, but some days I go out to it, and it is full yellow, so that is how bad it can get here sometimes, and then I pay the price.....

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16 hours ago, GazzaS said:

Thank God I'm in QLD.  When they say Melbourne, does that count all the suburbs, too?

Yep, all of Melbourne's suburbs, almost out to but not including Geelong. I'm up North of Melbourne close to the edge of the zone that is restricted.  Plus there is one rural district included, up my way.

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Also just make sure you check on friends and family at this time. My friend from my cricket club committed suicide a couple of weeks ago, leaving behind a wife and young son. We had no idea there was anything wrong, he just woke up one morning and drove his car into a tree. RIP J-P.

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32 minutes ago, BradG said:

Also just make sure you check on friends and family at this time. My friend from my cricket club committed suicide a couple of weeks ago, leaving behind a wife and young son. We had no idea there was anything wrong, he just woke up one morning and drove his car into a tree. RIP J-P.

The 'like' I put on your post is not a 'like' but an acknowledgement of your loss , I am sorry to hear of your friend Brad, very sad, and twice as bad for the ones he left behind..... yes, we do need to stay in touch with the friends and important ones.... my condolences...

Jeff

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On 4/3/2020 at 5:44 PM, Wumm said:

They don't want people travelling out into the regional areas, as there's comparitively little Hospital facilities out there. My hometown Rockhampton is roughly 80,000 people, and services a regional population of nearly double that. The Base Hospital there has only 300 beds, an outbreak in one of the Mining towns would see them swamped, let alone adding Backpackers and vacationing Retirees into the mix.

Health Authorities have traced an outbreak in a Pub in New South Wales to a single Man from Victoria, who visited on June 30th and was asymptomatic at the time. A single person has so far infected 35 people. The Queensland border is now closed to all Victorians; but there was a mass exodus of Retirees, vacationing Families and job seekers in a headlong rush to leave Victoria, without any consideration of the consequences to anyone but themselves.

This is exactly what our State Government was anticipating and trying to avoid. Queensland (along South Australia and Western Australia) were roundly criticised by the New South Wales and Victorian Governments for keeping their borders closed. Now it seems as if they were justified. 317 new cases in Victoria yesterday, many of them in Hospitals and Nursing Homes, and an unabated and very worrying upward curve.

S

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5 hours ago, BradG said:

Also just make sure you check on friends and family at this time. My friend from my cricket club committed suicide a couple of weeks ago, leaving behind a wife and young son. We had no idea there was anything wrong, he just woke up one morning and drove his car into a tree. RIP J-P.

I'm very sorry for your loss Brad, and for your Friend's family of course. Hopefully at the time restrictions were such that they could all have gathered safely to mourn his passing.

A Mate and a Husband and Father, but unfortunately to many just a mere statistic or an unintended consequence of not taking this thing seriously.

My condolences...

Steve

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8 hours ago, BradG said:

Also just make sure you check on friends and family at this time. My friend from my cricket club committed suicide a couple of weeks ago, leaving behind a wife and young son. We had no idea there was anything wrong, he just woke up one morning and drove his car into a tree. RIP J-P.

My condolences on your loss, Brad.

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