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EVERYTHING UKRAINE GROUP BUILD IS NOW UNDERWAY.

New News on WNW: 16 April 2020


GazzaS
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 Interesting take on the Roden struts, guys. 

I can see the issues you’re talking about, and it makes sense. WNW struts always were keyed and have solid attachment points. Roden’s are like all others, thin locators with little area for glue to grip.

i use Monofilament line almost exclusively. It adds so much strength to the build, it’s not even funny. My Felixstowe and possibly the Gotha would have collapsed in on themselves long before now. 

My Gotha survived a three day trip to Oregon and the same back, in the trunk of a car, none the worse for wear.

The Felix made it to Omaha from Texas and return. No issues. I’m a FiRM believer in the virtues of mono line. 

Pre rigging the top wing ShOULD help reduce the risk of knocking the wing off....

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Guest Dekenba
On 4/22/2020 at 4:13 AM, Clunkmeister said:

 Interesting take on the Roden struts, guys. 

I can see the issues you’re talking about, and it makes sense. WNW struts always were keyed and have solid attachment points. Roden’s are like all others, thin locators with little area for glue to grip.

i use Monofilament line almost exclusively. It adds so much strength to the build, it’s not even funny. My Felixstowe and possibly the Gotha would have collapsed in on themselves long before now. 

My Gotha survived a three day trip to Oregon and the same back, in the trunk of a car, none the worse for wear.

The Felix made it to Omaha from Texas and return. No issues. I’m a FiRM believer in the virtues of mono line. 

Pre rigging the top wing ShOULD help reduce the risk of knocking the wing off....

I also recommend the monofilament route for rigging - I use 2lb line, and it adds strength, albeit be careful not to overtighten the stuff.

 

I once rigged a WNW SE.5a with metal rigging - the stuff Radub sells on his site.

 

Absolute disaster. I now know why I'd never seen any pictures of it being done anywhere.

 

The slightest temperature change stretched & shrank the metal rigging, so the thing was warped to hell as the weather changed.

 

Since then, I use monofilament, with the occasional EZ line for thrown in.

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52 minutes ago, Dekenba said:

I also recommend the monofilament route for rigging - I use 2lb line, and it adds strength, albeit be careful not to overtighten the stuff.

I once rigged a WNW SE.5a with metal rigging - the stuff Radub sells on his site.

Absolute disaster. I now know why I'd never seen any pictures of it being done anywhere.

The slightest temperature change stretched & shrank the metal rigging, so the thing was warped to hell as the weather changed.

Since then, I use monofilament, with the occasional EZ line for thrown in.

I've seen Radu's stuff used on postwar British aircraft models with great success. I expect the same technique would work for wartime models as well, but what I was told they did was to let the one end that slots into the upper wing "float" uinsecured by glue, so it can expand or contract at it's leisure.

I've never tried it, and it would do absolutely nothing for unit strength, but it would certainly look prototypical.

Like you, I just use mono like. To heck with prototypical, I prefer strength, and besides, anything farther than 2 ft away, you can't tell the difference.

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On 4/23/2020 at 11:32 AM, Clunkmeister said:

 I expect the same technique would work for wartime models as well, but what I was told they did was to let the one end that slots into the upper wing "float" uinsecured by glue, so it can expand or contract at it's leisure.

 

I'm afraid that statement regarding the p/e flying wires is not true to my experience with that stuff.

I put 45 years of custom fabrication experience onto the problem and failed in every attempt to make it work.

Sanding the ends and not gluing to create a floating installation? ABSOLUTE POPPYCOCK

The p/e by production has the sharpest edges possible and does not take to sanding and fitting with the intention of moving inside the p/e wire terminals.

IT DOES NOT WORK on the finer 2-3 bay WW 1 subjects. I have seen it work on post war monoplanes that have rigid wings and heavier structure.

Here is one of a dozen pics of my attempts:

IMG-4529.jpg

Does that deflection look like the terminal will be able to absorb the amount of movement?

After 3-4 WEEKS  of trying to get the problem solved , I rigged The Biff Piece in 3 days with the recommended Prym.:

IMG-4830.jpg

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Guest Dekenba
2 hours ago, krow113 said:

I'm afraid that statement regarding the p/e flying wires is not true to my experience with that stuff.

I put 45 years of custom fabrication experience onto the problem and failed in every attempt to make it work.

Sanding the ends and not gluing to create a floating installation? ABSOLUTE POPPYCOCK

The p/e by production has the sharpest edges possible and does not take to sanding and fitting with the intention of moving inside the p/e wire terminals.

IT DOES NOT WORK on the finer 2-3 bay WW 1 subjects. I have seen it work on post war monoplanes that have rigid wings and heavier structure.

Here is one of a dozen pics of my attempts:

IMG-4529.jpg

Does that deflection look like the terminal will be able to absorb the amount of movement?

After 3-4 WEEKS  of trying to get the problem solved , I rigged The Biff Piece in 3 days with the recommended Prym.:

IMG-4830.jpg

Yep, my experience was almost exactly the same, except I was trying to rig an SE.5a.

Those PE strips have bugger all strength along their axis, and subsequently move all over the damned place.

The idea of having a floating attachment at one end - i.e. a fake attachment, not an attachment at all - only works if the PE expands or contracts along its length in a uniform manner.

It does not.

Plus, trying to hide the floating end is pretty much impossible, so the rigging just doesn't look right at all, with the thing looking like its got all the active tension & strength of Melania's knicker elastic.

I tried for a good couple of weeks, before reverting to good old 2lb fishing line.

Never again!

I still wake up sometimes, sweating & crying, screaming "bloody rubbish photo etch, what the....!" 

 

I very occasionally - very, very occasionally -  consider if I should have another go, but that thought lasts for the length of time it takes light to go into one of my ears and out the other one.

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That all happened in front of my entire IPMS crew.

I was doing a tutorial on the p/e wires . I spent good money ,over $100 on the stuff as well as a few other guy's.

I did use some of it for detailing a tail boom of a 1/72 Hiller 'copter

So there's that , and the feeling you shared as well.

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D, the models I saw the floating ends used on were Silver Wings British biplanes. A Hart I think, and an ugly something. Maybe resin is Easier? I dunno.  But I’ll never do it. Regular mono line painted silver works great and looks perfect. 

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Guest Dekenba
3 hours ago, Clunkmeister said:

D, the models I saw the floating ends used on were Silver Wings British biplanes. A Hart I think, and an ugly something. Maybe resin is Easier? I dunno.  But I’ll never do it. Regular mono line painted silver works great and looks perfect. 

Maybe the Hart wasn't using Radu's PE? I can see how it might work with high quality metal, rather than PE.

But mono & EZ Line are the way to go, as your fantastic Felixstowe proves.

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I always wondered, provided the wing was thick enough, whether it would be possible to tie one extremity of the PE wire to an elastic hidden in the wing, that would maintain the PE under tension ... To me that would be the only way to use these flat wires. The better alternative is to find some flat monofilament. I found some, but it’s a bit big for the scale, buy maybe for the Swordfish (or for 1/24).

On my Fisher Ryan ST-M, I followed Paul Fisher’s advice and did not use the supplied PE wires, but some round monofilament, and only the experts will know it is inaccurate ;) .

 

Hubert

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Guest Dekenba
49 minutes ago, HubertB said:

I always wondered, provided the wing was thick enough, whether it would be possible to tie one extremity of the PE wire to an elastic hidden in the wing, that would maintain the PE under tension ... To me that would be the only way to use these flat wires. The better alternative is to find some flat monofilament. I found some, but it’s a bit big for the scale, buy maybe for the Swordfish (or for 1/24).

On my Fisher Ryan ST-M, I followed Paul Fisher’s advice and did not use the supplied PE wires, but some round monofilament, and only the experts will know it is inaccurate ;) .

 

Hubert

Your "elastic tensioned metal rigging" sound interesting. It might work - and need an absolutely heroic amount of additional work and skill - but I fear that temperature changes will still see the PE expanding & contracting beyond the elastics capacity to deal with, and the elastic will eventually lose its elasticity at some point anyway. At that point, the entire thing will look like it was rigged by a heavily inebriated team of ninja rigging spiders.

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It’s an ironic and sad thing both

I’ve wanted a couple of specific WNW kits, but was putting them off because I don’t have a ton of room for a stash.

Now this happens.  I’d have assumed that SPJ would not let his “baby” die like this.  It seems now that the business side of things was far more complex and that WNW was simply “caught in the storm” of issues affecting all of those inter-related businesses

Its a true shame and I feel for those exquisite craftspeople now having to look elsewhere.

I hope that they land gently and with organizations that respect and make use of their skills.

And it seems that I am going to have to bite the bullet and pay extra to grab the kits while still available.

Bloody virus 

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"elastic tensioned metal rigging'

Is a misunderstanding of the problem.

The problem is the incompatibility of 2 materials and the expansion and contraction rate of two different materials.

A sliding mount or tensioned mount or Star Wars tribble mount , none will work.

Throw it in the bin if you have it, or into material stock.

If it was workeable and a proven method , we wouldnt be discussing it.

Another symptom of the OBC problem.

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Guest Dekenba
31 minutes ago, krow113 said:

"elastic tensioned metal rigging'

Is a misunderstanding of the problem.

The problem is the incompatibility of 2 materials and the expansion and contraction rate of two different materials.

A sliding mount or tensioned mount or Star Wars tribble mount , none will work.

Throw it in the bin if you have it, or into material stock.

If it was workeable and a proven method , we wouldnt be discussing it.

 symptom of the OBC problem.

How about the Star Trek Tribble?

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Guest Dekenba
2 minutes ago, krow113 said:

Same thing , unproven after market crap.

And we were the guinea pigs. Worse, it cost money as those PE rigging sheets are not cheap, nor the PE turnbuckles.

Just have to put it all down to experience, although I do wonder if Radu knows his PE rigging just doesn't bloody work?

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The one reaction I got was that I was a : "lone internet nutcase".

Which is how the OBC reacts to anyone or anything they dont like. Immediate discrediting for pointing out the obvious  failure .

Same to me as the guy who "vetted" a kit and almost simultaneously with the kits release ,released his own upgrade set. Obvious collusion with the manufacturer , which I dont care about , but the kit supplied parts were inferior , creating the need for the upgrade set.

That aint right.

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Not really news , but might be 'new'.

I've recently noticed the not frenzied but shall we say interesting up sale in the WNW kits. Suppliers are selling them as fast as they put them up , and already I see small talk about prices going up as availability decrease'.

Could be good for guys who wont mind selling their WNW kits.

I think I have the average 16-17 including 3 dogfight doubles , and if some one wants to pay stupid prices , I will sell them.

Interesting times in the modelling world.

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On 4/28/2020 at 4:29 PM, krow113 said:

Not really news , but might be 'new'.

I've recently noticed the not frenzied but shall we say interesting up sale in the WNW kits. Suppliers are selling them as fast as they put them up , and already I see small talk about prices going up as availability decrease'.

Could be good for guys who wont mind selling their WNW kits.

I think I have the average 16-17 including 3 dogfight doubles , and if some one wants to pay stupid prices , I will sell them.

Interesting times in the modelling world.

I have seen the same, and historically, when I high quality kit maker goes under, the prices will continue to go up. If you can find the $80-100 Wingnut kit, it might be worth buying a few to resell in a few years. 

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6 hours ago, GazzaS said:

It seems the value of Roden Kits has increased over at EBAY.

Indeed it has. I was watching a few of them, and they went up enough that I just deleted them from my list. I'll wait it out. It's not like I need any more damn kits anyway until I knock out a few more completions.

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21 hours ago, biggtim said:

Indeed it has. I was watching a few of them, and they went up enough that I just deleted them from my list. I'll wait it out. It's not like I need any more damn kits anyway until I knock out a few more completions.

Totally agree Tim, also I can’t abide “scalpers “

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