F-104 Flyout MFG2 (German Navy)

[GazzaS]

1 hour ago, Kaireckstadt said:

I did it in Alclad II. Didn’t dare doing it in real foil. Was too anxious to screw it up. 
Nevertheless the result was acceptable for me. What do you think? 

Kstadt,

    I think it looks great!  Just saying...  if you like 104's....  You might as well build another and pull out all of the stops.  From your post, I get the feeling that you think it is easy to ruin a model with the foiling process.  I can tell you that you cannot ruin a model while foiling.  The cement is non-solvent and water soluble.  Clean up of dried cement is accomplished with rubbing alcohol.  If you don't like a panel, you just peel, or in the worst case, sand the foil off.

 

It's a process to learn...  but you will never be less than thrilled with the result.

 

Gaz

[Kaireckstadt]

17 minutes ago, GazzaS said:

Kstadt,

    I think it looks great!  Just saying...  if you like 104's....  You might as well build another and pull out all of the stops.  From your post, I get the feeling that you think it is easy to ruin a model with the foiling process.  I can tell you that you cannot ruin a model while foiling.  The cement is non-solvent and water soluble.  Clean up of dried cement is accomplished with rubbing alcohol.  If you don't like a panel, you just peel, or in the worst case, sand the foil off.

 

It's a process to learn...  but you will never be less than thrilled with the result.

 

Gaz

Thanks Gaz. Following your arguments I should really give it a try. I don’t know if you know Peter Doll. The foto below shows one of his beauties. He’s a friend of mine and has done a lot of beautiful foiled birds. Sounds like you already did a model with foil. Do you have a picture of it? 

[GazzaS]

Hi KStadt,

   Peter's model sure looks great!  I hadn't seen it before.

This Starfighter was my fourth foiled model.  It's a few years old, and showing signs of being moved around too much.  Missing Pitot tube.  Missing ventral fin.  And worst of all, the original photos taken in bright sunshine under azure skies are in an old computer, or lost when the old file server went defunct.  So, I took some pics today though the skies are gray.

 

Someday they'll make a way to simulate afterburner flames.  And thousands of jet modellers will rejoice.

 

[Kaireckstadt]

1 hour ago, GazzaS said:

Hi KStadt,

   Peter's model sure looks great!  I hadn't seen it before.

This Starfighter was my fourth foiled model.  It's a few years old, and showing signs of being moved around too much.  Missing Pitot tube.  Missing ventral fin.  And worst of all, the original photos taken in bright sunshine under azure skies are in an old computer, or lost when the old file server went defunct.  So, I took some pics today though the skies are gray.

Even the heat-stained engine panels are foiled without paint.

At one point I was considering a clear acrylic rod to transition from engine to the base.  But I ran out of initiative.

My goal with the build was to capture the impression of speed.  A close-up of the cockpit would reveal the pilot's head thrust back fighting G's.  I see that some of the wing decals have silvered over time.

A lot of guys are unable to foil without leaving a texture that is visible in macro photos.   I will share a couple of them taken close up.

Foil is on the inside and outside of the intake.  It took some effort, but these things you learn.

Dusty.  I didn't try to make the the individual panels look different.  Any photos or footage I've seen of the real thing the panels are polished and don;t have the patchwork look.

 

After decals, I covered the model in a single coat of Future to inhibit oxidization.

 

Someday they'll make a way to simulate afterburner flames.  And thousands of jet modellers will rejoice.

 

Thanks for the fotos and your explanations, Gaz. 
Awesome looking Widow-Maker! 
I believe it’s 48 scale?

Lots of work you put into it! Even foiling the inside of the intakes!

Which foil do you use? Normal household I suggest?

The hot metal zone looks quite realistic! Do you use the eggshell-method to achieve the color? 
And which glue do you use? Clear Laquer? 

Peter once told me that even if you only change the direction of applying the foil gives a different but not patchy look.

I should really give it a try on the 48 scale 104 I have in my stash!

I‘ve sealed my Alclad 104 with Future too. Good protection!

What are the other planes you foiled?

Thanks again for your explanations!

Cheers

KStadt

(Kai)

[GazzaS]

Hi Kai,

    That model is the Italeri 1/32 scale 104A/C.   The panel lines are a bit wide...but otherwise, nice kit.  It takes up a lot of space...  but cost less than $2.00 to foil.

Stimmt!  I did use the egg shell method for the engine area.  It's a messy process.

I use the cheapest, bargain basement foil I can find.  Good foil is too thick.

This foil is polished, and laid in panels.  I use aluminum polish bought from a car parts store.  Many panels are laid in different directions.  You can score the foil with steel wool to get variation.  But polishing reverses your effect.  It had an almost mirror surface before I applied decals and Future.

This is the glue:

The other kits I've foiled are:  Hasegawa 1/48 P-47 razorback, 1/48 scale Tamiya N1K1 Shiden, 1/48 scale Arii Ki-44 Shoki, and the big Monogram 1/48 scale B-29....   so that actually makes the Starfighter the fifth.

 

I have a Tamiya MiG 15bis in 1/48 scale in the stash, too. 

Foil has changed my modelling life.  I once swore I would never build another NMF model until I found a way that wasn't painted.

 

 

[Buckeye82]

Wow, gorgeous build!

Mike

[Kaireckstadt]

2 hours ago, Buckeye82 said:

Wow, gorgeous build!

Mike

Thanks for your feedback Mike! 

[Kaireckstadt]

7 hours ago, GazzaS said:

Hi Kai,

    That model is the Italeri 1/32 scale 104A/C.   The panel lines are a bit wide...but otherwise, nice kit.  It takes up a lot of space...  but cost less than $2.00 to foil.

Stimmt!  I did use the egg shell method for the engine area.  It's a messy process.

I use the cheapest, bargain basement foil I can find.  Good foil is too thick.

This foil is polished, and laid in panels.  I use aluminum polish bought from a car parts store.  Many panels are laid in different directions.  You can score the foil with steel wool to get variation.  But polishing reverses your effect.  It had an almost mirror surface before I applied decals and Future.

This is the glue:

The other kits I've foiled are:  Hasegawa 1/48 P-47 razorback, 1/48 scale Tamiya N1K1 Shiden, 1/48 scale Arii Ki-44 Shoki, and the big Monogram 1/48 scale B-29....   so that actually makes the Starfighter the fifth.

 

I have a Tamiya MiG 15bis in 1/48 scale in the stash, too. 

Foil has changed my modelling life.  I once swore I would never build another NMF model until I found a way that wasn't painted.

 

 

Thanks again for the further information Gaz and the tips! You are already really experienced with foiling! Good  to know if I have a question.

I will try to get the stuff from Microscale too. 

Do you also have a single foto of your other BMF-Models? I‘m very interested to see the results of your efforts!

How long in average do you need for foiling of a complete aircraft? 
 

Thanks again and cheers

Kai
 

 

[GazzaS]

13 hours ago, Kaireckstadt said:

Thanks again for the further information Gaz and the tips! You are already really experienced with foiling! Good  to know if I have a question.

I will try to get the stuff from Microscale too. 

Do you also have a single foto of your other BMF-Models? I‘m very interested to see the results of your efforts!

How long in average do you need for foiling of a complete aircraft? 
 

Thanks again and cheers

Kai
 

 

Well, space is limited, so my models are on a slow rotation that ends up in the waste basket.  But I've jealously held on to my foiled kits except for the B-29.  And all of my online pictures went away with photobucket and the other now defunct server.  So I took a fresh picture of my remaining three.  The Ki-44 and P-47 are both supposed to look somewhat oxidized.  The N1K1 was painted a homemade version of Kawanishi green over foil...   And masked.   the underside is still NMF.

 

As for time...  the P-47 was my first, and I worked a couple hours here and there over two weeks to get the foiling done.  The next model, the N1K1 was finished much faster as I now had muscle memory and understood how and why metal reacts to the stretching and shrinking process.

 

I just looked at the WIP thread for my 104 (the pictures have disappeared).  It took me 5 days to foil...  bearing in mind I have a full time job.  I am also a fidgety person.  I often leave the bench to do other things.  So, I can't really give you a perfect estimate of how long the process takes.

 

If you're serious about shaping metal, the same principals apply to making a suit of armor as well as foiling a model.  There is a useful video on Vimeo of a metalsmith taking a flat sheet of brass and turning it into a three dimensional shape.  If you want, I can link it for you.  It isn't a short video.

 

[Kaireckstadt]

2 hours ago, GazzaS said:

Well, space is limited, so my models are on a slow rotation that ends up in the waste basket.  But I've jealously held on to my foiled kits except for the B-29.  And all of my online pictures went away with photobucket and the other now defunct server.  So I took a fresh picture of my remaining three.  The Ki-44 and P-47 are both supposed to look somewhat oxidized.  The N1K1 was painted a homemade version of Kawanishi green over foil...   And masked.   the underside is still NMF.

 

As for time...  the P-47 was my first, and I worked a couple hours here and there over two weeks to get the foiling done.  The next model, the N1K1 was finished much faster as I now had muscle memory and understood how and why metal reacts to the stretching and shrinking process.

 

I just looked at the WIP thread for my 104 (the pictures have disappeared).  It took me 5 days to foil...  bearing in mind I have a full time job.  I am also a fidgety person.  I often leave the bench to do other things.  So, I can't really give you a perfect estimate of how long the process takes.

 

If you're serious about shaping metal, the same principals apply to making a suit of armor as well as foiling a model.  There is a useful video on Vimeo of a metalsmith taking a flat sheet of brass and turning it into a three dimensional shape.  If you want, I can link it for you.  It isn't a short video.

 

Hi Gaz,

Thanks for your quick answer and the foto.

Your 3 foiled planes are all beauties! And all very colorful! Nice idea to paint a camouflage over foil! No paint-chipping is more realistic!

You are also very fast! Never thought that a job like this can be done in several days! But it’s like you said: experience is what makes you quicker.

It’s a pity that all information on the B-29 is lost. This is a really big model in 48 scale and a challenge for foiling.

I almost model in the late evening/ night because I have a job and a family. So I‘m in a comparable situation to you not always having time. And modeling isn’t my only hobby.

Would be great if you could give me the link to the video.

Thanks again for your pictures, tips and explanation. Much appreciated!

Cheers

Kai

[GazzaS]

Kai,

     Thank you!  In this video you'll see a guy working with hammers and dollies.  When you foil, you'll be using a wooden coffee stirrer in place of a hammer, and the model is your dolly.  The important thing to watch is how the metal reacts to his hammering.  Like him, you work from the center (for us, center of each panel) and circle your way outwards.

    Unlike him, we cannot anneal our aluminum.  It's too thin and fragile.   So, when we reach the limitations of the aluminum molecules, the aluminum will crack or tear.

Enjoy!

[Kaireckstadt]

12 hours ago, GazzaS said:

Kai,

     Thank you!  In this video you'll see a guy working with hammers and dollies.  When you foil, you'll be using a wooden coffee stirrer in place of a hammer, and the model is your dolly.  The important thing to watch is how the metal reacts to his hammering.  Like him, you work from the center (for us, center of each panel) and circle your way outwards.

    Unlike him, we cannot anneal our aluminum.  It's too thin and fragile.   So, when we reach the limitations of the aluminum molecules, the aluminum will crack or tear.

Enjoy!

Dear Gaz, 

thanks a lot for the video-link and your explanations. With your tips it doesn’t seem to be too complicated.

As soon as I have a model on my desk which should get a bare-metal finish I will test it.

Thanks again and cheers

Kai

[Peterpools]

Kai

Simply fantastic work - awesome in every respect

Keep 'em comin

Peter

[Jackster]

Superb build! Used to love the sound of these on the rare occasions I saw them.

Cheers

Kev

[Kaireckstadt]

7 hours ago, Peterpools said:

Kai

Simply fantastic work - awesome in every respect

Keep 'em comin

Peter

Thank you Peter. That’s a very nice compliment! 

[Kaireckstadt]

7 hours ago, Jackster said:

Superb build! Used to love the sound of these on the rare occasions I saw them.

Cheers

Kev

Thanks for this feedback. I also had the opportunity to hear the sound of of them. The howling is still in my mind.