KGr100 He111 - help interpreting these pictures please

[nmayhew]

Hi guys

 

Just wondered if you could help with these pics of KGr100 He111s please?

 

This was a pathfinding unit equipped with x-gerat if you are wondering what the extra aerials are.

 

First one...

- supposedly 6N+EK; definitely 6N+...but is it EK? any colours to these or all black?

- based in Vannes (France?)

- definitely an early H - note the cut back intakes on the starboard cowling; looks like solid front C-stand ie unmodified, no glazing / forward facing MG - do you agree?

- camo colours: blue underside given light shade of C-stand, with regular 70/71 splinter?

- supersized Balkenkreuz: white outline only, or filled with black?

 

 

 

second one...

 

- 6N+D?....K I presume? 

- D would be in red, as would the spinners by my reckoning (2 Staffel, I Gruppe if last digit is indeed a K right?); what colour the Ds on the wings?

- another early H, with solid front C-stand

- not sure about cowls this time, as the wrong side is shown; tube exhausts though

- camo: blue undersides, regular splinter

 

and last one...

not sure about the codes, or whether it is the same aircraft as in the last pic of Falke Eins' blog, but what makes it really interesting is the two different exhaust types - never seen that before!

 

 

here is the link to the blog, which also has a clear-ish pic of 6N+IK

http://falkeeins.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/heinkel-he-111-kgr-100-junkers-ju-87-d.html

 

anyway, i'd be interested to see what the Experten make of these!

 

cheers

 

Nick

 

 

[Wumm]

Hi-ho Nicko...

 

As you know, I'm more of a Jagdwaffe guy rather than Kampfgeschwader, but I'll take a stab at it.

 

I believe that the first photo shows a pre-BoB aircraft, perhaps only fresh from delivery and maybe even from the earlier period of operations over the North Sea. There certainly has been no attempt to tone down the visibility of the upper Balkankreuz. Lack of badge, introduced in April 1940 also points to this time frame, if it is indeed a "6N" code - there are no other unit markings present. Heinkel built H6's in the "GN+_ _" Stamkennzeichen batch, so this may also be a possibility. Perhaps overpainted, it seems Heinkel sent them out with white codes... http://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/aircrafts-2/heinkel_he111/heinkel-he-111-planes-on-assembly-line-in-factory/ Early C-stand, but hard to tell about the glazing... More on this and colours soon.

 

Second photo... Based in France, although pre- Night Blitz 1940. Most likely "6N+DK", and possibly the fuselage and tail D in red, although maybe yellow for 2./Kgr100?... http://ktsorens.tihlde.org/flyvrak/lagodal.html Possibly only white outlines to the Wing "D"s. Field of the badge appears much lighter than the Staffel colour. Spinner tips may be overpainted...  http://www.worldwarphotos.info/wp-content/gallery/germany/aircrafts/heinkel_he111/Heinkel_He111_France_1940.jpg

 

Third... My tip is Vannes France later in 1941, having arrived August 1940 via Luneberg Saxony in May 1940. Appears to be at least two different machines in Neil's blog, or at least in two different time frames, as the "I" is visible in your photo but overpainted in another on the blog. Exhaust combination is very unusual, but deliberate as indicated by the patterns caused by the efflux. Note the difference in the fuselage "I" as compared to both the spinner colour and the field of the badge.

 

Colours... It appears that the early H2 and H3 machines operated by KGr100 in Norway were extensively repainted. Note both the lighter underside and darker topside colours applied to this crashed example as dictated by the area within the wing root... http://www.airliners.net/photo/Germany---Air/Heinkel-He-111H-2/0659892/L/&sid=d0bdd5151ed04a33a935abdf67b9d7b6 Also note the glazing at the front of the C-stand. Normal colours for He111 would be 65/70/71 but it appears that some artistic licence can be applied depending on your interpretation of location and time-frame. 

 

Hope all that helps some, and hasn't made things worse!

S

[nmayhew]

hi Steve

thanks for the reply!

 

First up, if you have any interest in early war Luftwaffe then the Luftwaffe Crash Archive series is a must

 

Next, i forgot to mention: a feature of these x-gerat machines is the removal of the B-stand gun; to stop the gunner shooting away the extra aerials apparently!

 

the supersize Balkenkreuz are as a result of either a misinterpreted order for large markings underneath to help Flak recognition, or to help recognition by fighters when ferrying over friendly territory - I am sure I have read this but cannot remember where, or which one! Either would make sense.

if anyone has any other pics of the supersize Balkenkreuz machines, I would be very interested to see

 

the first part of the code is def 6N+...which also matches KGr100 machines

pre-April 1940, or indeed any time 1940 eliminates a H-6 I believe; this corroborates with the cut back cowls which i have only seen on H-1 to H-3, or at least those labelled as such

this is in turn corroborates with a solid C-stand front - this part is absolutely key

 

I cannot tell you how limiting Revell's choice in this regard makes things: early Ps and Hs without the glazing are exceedingly hard to pin down; and the glazing on the H-6 is completely different in shape

I tried to persuade A2zee Models to make this corrected glazing, as well as corrected A-stand nose cones, and proper PVC & ETC racks, but ultimately they declined.

But I digress... 

 

seems the second one might be 6N+DL...I am just having a nose around this website  - will take a while though

http://www.ghostbombers.com/1940/KG100/kg100_4.html

 

as to the last one, I am also doing some digging over at LEMB - did you realise that place is shutting down?

such a shame

 

thanks again for your input

 

cheers

 

Nick