PanzerWomble Posted September 19 Share Posted September 19 I squirrelled ......was all set to pick up the Brisfit .....and then wanted to try new paints instead this week I'm not huge fan of Tigger 1...frankly an overated tank IMHO , German propaganda made it "unbeatable" .....Allied soldiers seemed to go with that ...every tank was suddenly a Tiger !!, and everyone else post war became a fan boy .....there are numerous examples of these being knocked out with 6 lbrs in Italy ...just saying . Wittman's charge at Villers Boccage ? A lot of what you think you know was German propaganda at the time. He tried it again in August .....wasn't so invincible then . So I don't build them much , I bought this example at the Coventry Air Museum along with books , plates, fridge magnets (Mrs Wombles thing) ad naseum as a way of given them some money on my birthday last year. I last built a 1/35 tiger in 1984 - sort of Kursk ish based on the older 1970 tool ...it was the last armour build of my yoof , and I wouldn't return for 15 years. My son built the above in the early 00's , and we robbed the old wubber twacks off my old one rather than be assed with individual links ...he was 8....painted it with a brush etc ..like I did in 84 ......oddly he's 27 today , how time flies. This sat in the attic at my folks for 4 decades .. so......... the reason for the build is , I wanted to give Ammo's ATOM 3rd Gen Acryliics paints a crack , seeing two armour modellers I love try them out and wanted an easy subject to use . I don't have a problem with Tamiya paints, used them for years but they are limiting in many ways . So the build starts with the Zimmerit .....my preferred method is Tamiya White and their rakes, I've also used putties - way out of scale, real Zimm is about half the width of your finger deep , Trumpeter rollers ( an arse to use) . A product called "no more nails" also works well ..it has a working time of about 90 seconds so you have to be canny . Unlike the T /White, it is hard to remove . The instructions nicely tell you where it all goes . Looks a bit scrappy ?? Don't worry this is only the base . I prefer applied to stuck on which is always tooo regular for me . ATOM does not like direct to plastic and needs a primer The Creamwiese covering is patchy . Says to thin up to 50% .....The paint seems not to like IPA, either neat or mixed in X20 -A ...didn't like Laquer thinner either , & clogged both airbrushes. Plain water worked ish . Dries slow too as it is 100% H2O, hair dryer handy .... One pass on grey 2 passes on grey ...don't believe everything on the net about one shot wonder Spraying neat worked better - we will learn more in Part 2 ... Moving on Threw a set of these at them , if you haven't used these before you really are missing out esp as they aren't closing shop now . Doubled the cost of the build as they are as much as the tank though . Ofter have to drill out the pin holes Vice and wire for these ones, I also use small diameter pins , Then you get to do this ...goes in silver comes out black , headnod to Nightshift ....this VMS fluid is consistant . If I were smarter I'd warm it up first for a quicker reaction . Use a plastic container not metal .... Cook both sides ...... No tank is ever OOB with me ..old tricks , jewellry wire for hawsers Sides skirts replaced with copper plate and battered , Tammy doesn't include the meshes for stopping grenades but again an easy old fix So all the boring stuff done ..that plastic hawser's is 52mm wide in scale measurements .....should have swapped it too and ............ Ptwang ... Everything unified under primer ...some adjustments and then moving onto the point of the exercise Right , caught you all up , part two is painting /chipping it Laterz PW 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count0 Posted September 19 Share Posted September 19 6 hours ago, PanzerWomble said: Tamiya paints, used them for years but they are limiting in many ways Pretty much all I use are Tamiya acrylics. I don't find them limiting at all, so I am curious where you are? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GusMac Posted September 19 Share Posted September 19 No More Nails for zimmerit is certainly one I wouldn't have thought of trying. Works bloody effectively as an adhesive though. Interesting results with the Atom paints - look similar to the standard Ammo paints in that it looks like it needs lots of very thin layers. Must have changed something though as I've successfully thinned the original formulation with Mr Levelling. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerWomble Posted September 19 Author Share Posted September 19 1 hour ago, Count0 said: Pretty much all I use are Tamiya acrylics. I don't find them limiting at all, so I am curious where you are? Tried brush painting miniatures with them ,..or brush painting anything for that matter ?😆. You can do it -but they are very ropey compared to many others . Also, although I'm not hooked on colours and am happy to mix , the palette is the same it's been for 50 years near as dammit , and a lot of colours are way out by modern standards. They are cheap and easily found , robust and reasonably easy to work with , but people said that about Model T's as well ...time and technology move on , hence having a look . if they work for you then TBH thats all that matters. 1 hour ago, GusMac said: No More Nails for zimmerit is certainly one I wouldn't have thought of trying. Works bloody effectively as an adhesive though. Interesting results with the Atom paints - look similar to the standard Ammo paints in that it looks like it needs lots of very thin layers. Must have changed something though as I've successfully thinned the original formulation with Mr Levelling. No me neither until I saw this years ago from Salisbury Model Centre . I've done a few using it , when you rake it a fair whack can drag off so it can self chips . The ATMOs smells like normal Ammo to me as well, that cheesy plastic smell . Never used Mr levelling , normally Tam Lac Thinner to thin , and flow improver from Galeria to level . I know 1000's swear by it , I may have to buy some . If only MRP (made in Cz) were easily available and cheap here .... Old basic build on a Panther done in No More Nails using a razor saw (lawks) , reckon the tammy white is more forgiving longer working time etc these days 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count0 Posted September 20 Share Posted September 20 10 hours ago, PanzerWomble said: Tried brush painting miniatures with them ,..or brush painting anything for that matter Fair point. And I never use it for brush painting. I have Vallejo for that. As for colors, I don't believe in matching to color chips. Assuming they are even correct. I'm going to adjust to my eye. Then it's going to get faded and shaded and messed with. And I love that I can thin and clean my airbrush with rubbing alcohol. Even in today's economy, rubbing alcohol is cheap. To each their own, I just don't see a need to switch. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerWomble Posted September 20 Author Share Posted September 20 Red primer 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerWomble Posted September 20 Author Share Posted September 20 Base colours and cammo.....Galeria Fluid Retarder seems to work , it's a thin break point between it flows to it's water ... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerWomble Posted September 20 Author Share Posted September 20 Thin coats of ATOM matt white ....then some damp brush chipping ...the point of the exercise. I would say 6/10 .....I was expecting more . I've got some alternative thinners coming so we will continue to play about . Final part soon ...all the Eastern Front goodness weathering . 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landlubber Mike Posted September 20 Share Posted September 20 Man, you work fast PW! And with such amazing results! Great work! Is that VMS product a blackening solution for metal products? On the wooden ship model side, there are various blackening agents for things like cannons which are typically turned brass. I believe some of the blackening products are off the market so good to know that others have stepped in. I recently bought some VMS products - different adhesives, etc. - and like them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerWomble Posted September 20 Author Share Posted September 20 1 hour ago, Landlubber Mike said: Man, you work fast PW! And with such amazing results! Great work! Is that VMS product a blackening solution for metal products? On the wooden ship model side, there are various blackening agents for things like cannons which are typically turned brass. I believe some of the blackening products are off the market so good to know that others have stepped in. I recently bought some VMS products - different adhesives, etc. - and like them. Cheers Mike The product is VMS Black Track Pro 2.0 and is specifically designed to burnish pot metal tracks . It works well and quickly , and the 200ml bottle will do 2-3 sets of tracks before the results slope off and you need to buy a new bottle . I like the look it gives , it's rarely uniform , its very robust , and it a great base for further weathering . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GusMac Posted September 20 Share Posted September 20 I hear you on the MRP. Used it on the Viggen and loved it but had to get it directly from them as none of the UK suppliers had more than a very basic selection of colours. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerWomble Posted September 20 Author Share Posted September 20 3 minutes ago, GusMac said: I hear you on the MRP. Used it on the Viggen and loved it but had to get it directly from them as none of the UK suppliers had more than a very basic selection of colours. I've the odd bottle , and they are lovely but yes, getting hold of them is a nightmare post Brexit . I'm too tight to pucker up and buy them from Cz. 🥺 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GusMac Posted September 20 Share Posted September 20 1 minute ago, PanzerWomble said: I've the odd bottle , and they are lovely but yes, getting hold of them is a nightmare post Brexit . I'm too tight to pucker up and buy them from Cz. 🥺 Yeah, not cheap but I'd lost too many brain cells trying to colour match the Swedish colours so I bit the bullet! 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANicoll Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 22 hours ago, Landlubber Mike said: Man, you work fast PW! And with such amazing results! Great work! Is that VMS product a blackening solution for metal products? On the wooden ship model side, there are various blackening agents for things like cannons which are typically turned brass. I believe some of the blackening products are off the market so good to know that others have stepped in. I recently bought some VMS products - different adhesives, etc. - and like them. Where do you get the VMS stuff? Peter has made me a convert to MRP so I'm reluctant to switch AGAIN to another paint. But I would like to find a good acrylic to replace Vallejo despite I have so many bottles. PW - your thread here is fantastic. Thanks for the step-by-step discussion and show. Incredibly invaluable even if I never plan on doing Zimmerit. But the effect you are generating is excellent. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landlubber Mike Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 21 minutes ago, CANicoll said: Where do you get the VMS stuff? Peter has made me a convert to MRP so I'm reluctant to switch AGAIN to another paint. But I would like to find a good acrylic to replace Vallejo despite I have so many bottles. PW - your thread here is fantastic. Thanks for the step-by-step discussion and show. Incredibly invaluable even if I never plan on doing Zimmerit. But the effect you are generating is excellent. I bought glues, etc. directly from VMS: https://www.vms-supplies.com Very fast shipping, good products from my initial use of them. Their canopy glues are very good. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerWomble Posted September 21 Author Share Posted September 21 4 hours ago, CANicoll said: Where do you get the VMS stuff? Peter has made me a convert to MRP so I'm reluctant to switch AGAIN to another paint. But I would like to find a good acrylic to replace Vallejo despite I have so many bottles. PW - your thread here is fantastic. Thanks for the step-by-step discussion and show. Incredibly invaluable even if I never plan on doing Zimmerit. But the effect you are generating is excellent. I don't know so much about their paint , I know them more from "chemicals" like this track potion . I also tried their varnishes ( ok but nothing to write home about ) and a product called ballast freeze which is a great way of securing loose scatter , rocks etc to a diorama. The irony of MRP being widely available in the US but not in the UK is crazy given where it comes from ...but hey ho . Have a crack at the Zimm .....you can't make a proper Panther without it really ... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterpools Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 PW WOW, incredible build and of course, you're almost reaching the lightening speeds of John b. As Chris said, I converted over to MRP a number of years ago and just love 'em. Color range is excellent, a bit pricey but the hardest part is finding and buying them. My go too vendor is SB but I've never been able to buy all the colors I need to a project at one time as the wonderful "Out of Stock" jumps up way too often. And if SB is out, I'm pretty well left in a holding pattern. I now fill in with AL Real Colors when I can but will need to give the Mig Atom paints a test. I have a lot of their paints in the stash, but I just can't get the same results with them as I do MRP and AK. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerWomble Posted September 22 Author Share Posted September 22 8 hours ago, Peterpools said: PW WOW, incredible build and of course, you're almost reaching the lightening speeds of John b. As Chris said, I converted over to MRP a number of years ago and just love 'em. Color range is excellent, a bit pricey but the hardest part is finding and buying them. My go too vendor is SB but I've never been able to buy all the colors I need to a project at one time as the wonderful "Out of Stock" jumps up way too often. And if SB is out, I'm pretty well left in a holding pattern. I now fill in with AL Real Colors when I can but will need to give the Mig Atom paints a test. I have a lot of their paints in the stash, but I just can't get the same results with them as I do MRP and AK. Just can't find MRP in the UK , the places that sell them are all out of stock mostly ,.......apart from purplegreenflourescent....🥺 I've couple of bottles of Light Gull Grey I managed to snare, but thats it . Personally don't like the regular Ammo paints much , to much like trying to spray Vallejo ..rubbery ...and these ATOMS ....ok ish ....not quite the game changer I was expecting . I'll play around with what I've bought to see if I can get into the groove with them ...but yeah I was kinda underwhelmed. Anyhoo it's finished ..RFI here .. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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