Artful69 Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Hi all ... I need some help here. Due to the company I work for shutting down over Christmas/New Year, I'm looking to do something a little more ambitious than the average OOB build. I wanted to have a crack at a Bf109E with Eduards BigSin resin and photo etch set. Since my AM work has been limited to Master barrels and some decals in the past, I have no idea what I need in order to do this work ... I remember various people taking about sanding, different glues, saws, bending tools etc ... but I don't really have any idea where to begin. I have the BigSin set lined up for purchase ... but I'd like to add the tools etc to the cart before finalising. Thanks in advance ... Rog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators James H Posted December 12, 2015 Administrators Share Posted December 12, 2015 I can't do without the RB Productions razor saws. I've used several different types before, and these are unsurpassable. PE fold tool....I use Hold 'n Fold 5.5 inch CA Gel and Medium viscosity CA that gives time for stuff to be adjusted Devcon Epoxy Also, remember to clean any resin in warm water and detergent first, just in case there is any mould release remaining. I use an ultrasonic bath for this, and you can typically get them for around £20 in the UK. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 I never clean my resin. .. never had an issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artful69 Posted December 13, 2015 Author Share Posted December 13, 2015 Hi Rog, For Resin I use 5 min epoxy, gives time for correct placing, gel-type CA for PE. Look for a Hold&Fold tool from The Small Shop, different sizes I am very happy with my '5-speed'. Look for some RB productions saws, mini bucksaw, micro saws. Jeweler's files are handy too, with the diamond stuff on it - metal files will clog up. Don't breathe the sanding dust of resin, some don't even touch it without gloves, too. George I can't do without the RB Productions razor saws. I've used several different types before, and these are unsurpassable. PE fold tool....I use Hold 'n Fold 5.5 inch CA Gel and Medium viscosity CA that gives time for stuff to be adjusted Devcon Epoxy Also, remember to clean any resin in warm water and detergent first, just in case there is any mould release remaining. I use an ultrasonic bath for this, and you can typically get them for around £20 in the UK. Thank you James and George!! I've found the Small Tools section on the site I'm purchasing from and they have RB gear too ... Found some diamond files also They have a whole bunch of glues ... is there a list of particular brands that are decent (Googled, and not sure we have Devcon in Australia) - I know from experience that some are just not worth the bother! ... I've used some really cheap 'thin' CA in the past - for brass stuff ... but the only epoxy I've used before is Araldite, which was a 24 hour proposition. Cheers Rog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywifehatesmodels Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Hi, Rog! Plain razor blades come in really handy for bending/folding some PE parts, as well. For resin, I prefer CA glue for just about everything (I use CA on 99.9% of all the plastic I build, too). However, as George suggested, epoxy gives you more working time and is especially useful for larger assemblies. For this particular build, you would probably be fine with just CA, but for large conversions, or complete resin kits, epoxy is a great medium. Oh, yes, if you haven't already used it, CA accelerator can be your best friend (or worst enemy). Get the part where you want it and put a drop in the join and it's instantly frozen in place. Just make sure it's in the RIGHT place, first! Also, accelerator also helps reduce the risk of fogging when using CA on clear parts (if your clear parts are coated in Future, or the like, then even better). Looking forward to seeing your 109. Sounds like a great project! John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artful69 Posted December 13, 2015 Author Share Posted December 13, 2015 Hi, Rog! Plain razor blades come in really handy for bending/folding some PE parts, as well. For resin, I prefer CA glue for just about everything (I use CA on 99.9% of all the plastic I build, too). However, as George suggested, epoxy gives you more working time and is especially useful for larger assemblies. For this particular build, you would probably be fine with just CA, but for large conversions, or complete resin kits, epoxy is a great medium. Oh, yes, if you haven't already used it, CA accelerator can be your best friend (or worst enemy). Get the part where you want it and put a drop in the join and it's instantly frozen in place. Just make sure it's in the RIGHT place, first! Also, accelerator also helps reduce the risk of fogging when using CA on clear parts (if your clear parts are coated in Future, or the like, then even better). Looking forward to seeing your 109. Sounds like a great project! John Thanks John ... Any Idea about the glues brands to look for? ... Or the accelerator? ... What is Future? Rog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywifehatesmodels Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Rog, Once again, I'll concur with George on most points (cuz he's a pretty smart guy!). For any of this stuff, I'm not sure what brands you have available. A lot of modellers have their favorites. With regards to CA glue, like George, I've found a generic brand available at Wal-Mart, over here, that's dirt cheap and actually performs better than any of the big name (and big money) brands that I've tried. One of the most important traits of CA glue, for my uses, is whether or not it shrinks after it cures, since I use it for seams on everything. Not just to join the parts, but also as a filler, so long as the gap isn't too large. Once it's cured, you can sand/polish it to be as smooth as glass, and often it can be almost as clear, also. However, if it's a brand/formula that has a tendency to shrink, you'll start seeing your seams reappear, under your paint work, which can be frustrating. I would run some tests with what you can find locally, or see what other modellers in Oz are using. There might be some local, secret weapon CA that they can recommend. For accelerator, check with craft/hobby outlets in your area. Also, as George recommended, using a toothpick, or some small applicator is a big plus. A lot of accelerators come in a small spray bottle, where you just pump a mist onto the part. I've found this to be very wasteful and often messy, as well. First off, you don't want to touch any paint that has accelerator on it, as it may damage the finish while it's wet (it's a pretty harsh chemical). However, it typically won't damage the paint, so long as you don't touch it while it's wet and it dries very fast. But, to avoid wasting the stuff and to get it ONLY where you need it, a toothpick, or some other applicator may work just fine. What I usually do is unscrew the little spray pump cap from my bottle and actually use the tip of the the little hose that runs down into the bottle, just touching it near the surface where the glue is and letting capillary action run it's course, causing the accelerator to flow into the joint. The tiniest drop will go a long way. As a matter of fact, I bought an 8 oz. refill bottle of accelerator, about ten years ago and I still have about 1/3 of it left and this was even after it took me a couple years to realize how wasteful using the spray pump was! Like I said, a little bit goes a LONG way. "Future" floor polish was made by the SC Johnson company, here in the states. A couple years back, they changed the name of the product to "Pledge, with Future Shine", which is supposed to be the same. I know it goes by another name in UK/Europe, but hopefully some more of our Aussie friends can point you in the right direction on what do look for, down under. I still have two bottles that I bought, years before the change in name, that I use for all of my canopy/clear parts. It has many other uses in modelling, but that's what I use it for. On canopies, it's good for making light scratches disappear, as well as making the part, as a whole, a lot more clear to the eye. However, one of it's biggest advantages, in my opinion, is that it also prevents clear parts from being fogged over by fumes from CA glue (and, as I stated before, hitting CA with accelerator also seems to reduce this risk, greatly). Most people talk about "dipping" parts in Future. It can also be sprayed through an airbrush. However, for my canopy parts, I use the two bottles and a funnel. Put the funnel in one bottle, then pour the Future over the clear part, being sure to get both sides, letting the excess run off and into the other bottle, through the funnel. Just be sure the funnel is clean (I have a dedicated "Future Funnel" that I use for this process). After you've coated your clear parts, let them sit on a paper towel, but you will also want to use a paper towel to try to wick away the excess from the edges, to avoid runs/bubbles. This will take a little bit of practice, but don't worry, because..... Another great thing about Future, is that you can remove it with ammonia. Drop a canopy into a cup of ammonia and swish it around for five seconds and the Future will be completely stripped away. Let it dry and you can start the process over again and the canopy won't suffer any damage from it. Even if Future is fully cured, ammonia will take it off, pretty much immediately. This also comes in handy if you run into trouble down the road, with paint of glue mishaps. So long as they haven't penetrated the coat of Future, you can strip it and start anew. Hope this helps! Cheers, John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywifehatesmodels Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 You callin' me a cheapskate, George? You would be correct! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulster Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 I use JB Quik Weld now instead of epoxy. Not as messy I think. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artful69 Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 I use JB Quik Weld now instead of epoxy. Not as messy I think. I looked this one up (always ready to look at something new!) ... The JB site is telling me that JB Quick Weld is epoxy?! Rog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artful69 Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 ... ... ... ... ... Looking forward to seeing your 109. Sounds like a great project! John ... Hi everyone ... I wanted to thank you all for your input - and let you know how I got on ... I've done a double order - through two Aussie suppliers (ex-east). As you can probably understand, I had to keep the order local in order to have any chance at all - of getting the gear before the Christmas break. Hell ... As it is - some of it may not be here at all during the break, but I've given it a red hot crack! ... I'm going to have to improvise with some of it - No-one has any RB stuff in stock ... One of the suppliers rang the morning after I did the order to tell me they hadn't got the CA glue applicator, that I ordered from them, in stock! ... helpful hint from the IPMS sales dude on the phone? - use bamboo skewers from the local supermarket?!? ... Well ... it's worth a crack, I guess! Mission Impossible: Build, to completion, a Bf109E-1 (Probably using the Eduard Profimodeler kit in the stash) with the BigSin upgrade ... Hopefully, during the period I'm on break (24th Dec to 3rd Jan - inclusive) I've never posted a build thread anywhere before ... partly to avoid criticism of my retarded building skills - I'm seriously deficient when compared to the majority of builds posted online. I've never done anything exciting like pre-shading ... never played with resin ... weathering has been pretty much none existent and I tend to use my Tamiya acrylics straight from the bottle (excepting thinners) with no colour modulation - so nothing is ever 100% as it should be. I see plenty of scratch, resin and PE work online ... but it mainly comes across like "... and this is what I did." -> posted as a fait accompli instead of showing the entire process used. I, therefore use the forums to - A / Find out about new products, B / Buy products I'm chasing and C/ Ogle everyone else's work. **Edit** - I just read this part after posting - and it looks a bit too critical and arrogant ... I've actually learned quite a bit from forums, really ... An example of what I'm talking about above, would go like this: Joe has a build thread for a resin model kit ... a wing-half, out of the kit box, is discovered to be out of shape ... some sort of warping. He mentions that it's no drama ... He's just stuck it in some hot water for a while ... the wing returned to it's original mould shape. Ta-Da! ... Ok ... So ... What was the water temperature when you inserted it? ... Was the Water "held" at the same temperature during the process? (i.e. under heat?) ... For how long was the item inserted ... What consistency was the Item when it was removed from the water ... When did it "return" to it's correct shape - during or after? So this will be my FIRST EVER online build ... And although I'd like to label it "Modelling for Retards - adding enhancements" ... I don't think that is PC enough. But it will be something, I hope, to encourage those with a "beginners" skill set - by showing all my "first time" efforts online ... and posting a bucketload of really obvious clarifying questions (that most experienced builders would know the answers to). Here's a "shopping list" of all the gear currently incoming ... From Contestant number 1: * Super Detail-Up Resin parts for 1/32 BF109E - Eduard BigSin * Photo Etch Workstation - The 5.5 (5 Speed) Hold and Fold Works. * Tamiya Thin Blade Craft Saw (2 blades) * CMK Saw Blades 5 Pcs - 2 Sided (Ultra Smooth and Extra Smooth) * CMK Saw Blade Handle * Diamond File set 3 Pcs From Contestant number 2: * Tamiya Paint Stirrer * Tamiya Modelling Scissors ... [PE Specific] * Zap-A-Gap - 5 Minute Quick Set Epoxy - 4 oz * Zap-A-Gap - Cyanoacrylic Thick Viscosity Slo Dry - 2 oz * Zap-A-Gap - Debonding Agent For Cyanoacrylic - 30 ml * Zap-A-Gap - Kicker - 2 oz * Zap-A-Gap - Canoacrylic Medium Viscosity - 2 oz * Zap-A-Gap - Flexi Tips (24 pk) ... [these things are some sort of flexible applicator] Cheers for now ... Rog 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywifehatesmodels Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Rog, It looks like you have pretty much everything you're going to need, and then some. For a CA applicator, the skewers should work pretty well for most spots. I would also recommend using a needle or straight pin for the really small applications. As the dried CA starts to build on the tip, it will allow you to get a little more control over how big of a drop you want to use. The beauty of it is that you can just scrape off the old glue if you feel it's getting too chunky at the tip and start over. This is much harder to do with wood, or even plastic applicators. Once you start playing and practicing with CA and applicators, you'll get a feel for what works. I'm lucky(?) in that I also have hypodermic needles around which come in very handy as applicators of CA, decal setting solution and the like. But, I realize that not everyone has access to these. I have a prescription medication that requires me to take an injection once per week. So, all the syringes are put in a bin on my hobby bench when I'm finished (and the vac plastic containers that they come in also make for great paint/glue mixing trays, so I keep those, too!). The only down side to the syringe is that, once you use it for CA, it's pretty much useless as a syringe afterwards. But, that's what I use as an applicator in most instances and I have enough of them around to keep me in steady supply. With regards to you posting your build and your comments about the process: First of all, I didn't think your comments came across as arrogant, at all. In fact, you make a very good point that's given me a moment of pause. That is regarding what I post about the processes I use while building something, especially when it's anything more involved than "glue part A to part B". Now, this could also come across as ME being arrogant, but that's certainly not my intention, either. The thought process, when I'm posting a WIP thread, is that most of the people reading it probably already know how to do it and I'm afraid of boring them, or that it might appear as if I'm assuming they don't know how this stuff is done and I don't want to appear as though I'm patronizing them, either. It's more the former, however. I pretty much assume that everyone reading it is a better modeler than I am. From time to time I need a reminder, I guess, of what "AssU..Me" means, again. So, with that being said, if you're ever reading one of my posts and want more details on how I did, or am going to do something, don't be afraid to ask! I want to help people as much as possible and give back to the community for everything I have taken from it. I use (rip off?) people's techniques all the time....because I admire their work. I hope that's viewed by them as flattery, because I view them as some of the best modellers on the planet and aspire to become as good as they are. But, in the end, I think we're all in it together and that's one of the things I love about this forum is that there doesn't seem to be any arrogance, at all. So, Rog, feel free to post away, with whatever you're comfortable with. I'm sure everyone here will cheer you on and help out if necessary. Also, don't sell yourself short. You may find that people are actually learning something from it, too. I can honestly say that, after posting models/builds on several forums over the years, there are a couple that I am still hesitant to post on, for all the same reasons you have stated above. But, this forum is different. That's why I'm spending time here (and also LSP, my other favorite). If there is criticism, it's constructive and helping, sharing, or learning always come before someone's ego. That's the way it should be. I've built the Eduard 109. If I could offer one word of advice, before starting, it would be to watch out for the fit of the nose, especially if you're planning to glue the cowl in place. It will likely take some dry-fitting and omission of some of the parts underneath the cowl panels (possibly even sanding some of them down) to get it to fit right. I also recall a gap to be filled on the belly, where the wing bottom meets the fuselage at the rear. I believe most, if not all, of the people who have built this kit have had to deal with these issues. So, if you get to that point and are thinking "what did I do?", it's not you! Now, mine also has some twist in the left wing. That was all on ME!!!! Cheers, John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artful69 Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 ... I've built the Eduard 109. If I could offer one word of advice, before starting, it would be to watch out for the fit of the nose, especially if you're planning to glue the cowl in place. It will likely take some dry-fitting and omission of some of the parts underneath the cowl panels (possibly even sanding some of them down) to get it to fit right ... John ... With the upgrade - I'm thinking this won't be an issue anymore ... http://www.eduard.com/store/Eduard/Bf-109E-1-32-1.html Especially since the above comes with a new resin cowl!! ... I also recall a gap to be filled on the belly, where the wing bottom meets the fuselage at the rear. I believe most, if not all, of the people who have built this kit have had to deal with these issues. So, if you get to that point and are thinking "what did I do?", it's not you! ... Now that bit ... I didn't remember seeing! ... Don't worry - If I run into any difficulty in the build, I'll be throwing the "really obvious clarifying questions" out there ... there's a couple of Eduard Bf109E-1 build threads I remember seeing around the place ... I saw a nifty simple fix (gap fill and scribe) for the oversized leading wing edge slats somewhere ... so that's the sort of thing I'll be trying to emulate ... maybe some paint mixing and weathering too! Rog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywifehatesmodels Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Rog, I haven't used the engine set, or seen it in a WIP yet (but would have to do some searching for a bit to see if someone else has done it). Are you going to display the engine, opened up? The gap on the belly really wasn't a big issue, but I just thought I would point it out. As for the slats, I know I cut mine and glued the rear portion to the wing and blended it in, using the forward remainder to represent the slats. That trick is out there, as I robbed it from someone else. However, it's most likely outlined in my build thread over at LSP. I can dig it up for you, if need be. When you get your build started and get to the painting/weathering phase, I'm sure you will get plenty of input from people, especially those that use/have used the same kind of paint. But, don't let it intimidate you. You'll be just fine, I'm sure. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artful69 Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 Rog, ... I haven't used the engine set, or seen it in a WIP yet (but would have to do some searching for a bit to see if someone else has done it). Are you going to display the engine, opened up? ... That's the beauty of this one (I think??) ... I'm not sure anyone (at least with a build thread, that is) has used it before!! I'll have to wait till I get it and cut/clean the parts for assembly before I decide exactly how to proceed ... I have a couple of ideas I'd like to look at (One involving spare Tamiya magnets from an old P-51D build) ... further musings about the what, when and how, I'll stick on the build thread. BTW ... that link to your efforts for ease of access will be appreciated. Rog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywifehatesmodels Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Found it, Rog! The slat fix is on page 2, but here's the WIP thread link: http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=41371 John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artful69 Posted December 22, 2015 Author Share Posted December 22, 2015 Well ... The package from Supplier 1 arrived today with the correction set and some tools ... so we're off to a good start ... Better think about setting up that build thread soonish ... 1 more working day to go, and then I'm on leave, yay! Rog 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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