IDF F15C Commando

[BevanBrooks]

Great work on the ordnance Gus. Hope mine turns out that good on the mig.

 

As for the painting, just go for it!

 

Cheers Bevan

[GusMac]

Thanks Bevan. I'm sure your ordnance will be great. I did the Mig-23MF last and there is certainly a wide selection to choose from! I did mine with a full AA load but there are lots of ground attack options as well.

 

Gus

[Dennis.E]

Hi Gus, Fantastic!! You have done a great job on that ordinance mate. Gee, that missile the pup spat out looks suspiciously like haggis....

[Dennis.E]

Any of the guys who have seen your Mig Gus will be looking foward to this as much as I am....

[GusMac]

Ok, no progress with the Eagle directly just some confidence boosting. First up some playing around with the Vallejo Metal Color acrylics using an old Tamiya 1/48 Skyray my son gave up on.

 

 

 

Used the gloss black primer with Magnesium of the wingtip, Pale Burnt Metal on the leading edge, Jet Exhaust on the trailing edge and Engine Manifold in the centre. They spray nicely without thinning but I had the pressure a bit high, hence the 'splodges' towards the back - good learning points for the real thing though. Definitely now have a plan about how to go about the exhausts and rear metalwork on the F15.

 

 

 

Next up was practising the marbling and top coat for a monochrome finish with the black basing. Matt McDougall's recent tutorials on this and general airbrushing were invaluable. Paint was thinned to roughly 2.5:1 thinner to paint which is waaaaay beyond anything I'd thought of using before but once I'd got the pressure and trigger point on the airbrush settled I was amazed how straightforward it is. I'm not sure if the top layer is still too translucent or whether that is the contrast with the unpainted primer, so if any of you more experienced guys have opinions I'd love to hear them. It looks ok to my eye but probably better towards the outer wing - looks too patchy towards the fuselage.

 

Certainly a lot happier about tackling this now but I'd love to hear any comments, critiques, etc as I'm keen to keep pushing my skill-set on.  

[Dennis.E]

Hi Gus,

I'm currently working through the Revell 32 scale Strike Eagle - what we have here is a huge air frame covered in...well....grey.

Grey everywhere. Gunship grey, according to the purists, I believe. In reality, if you were to stand up close to a real air frame you would perceive many varying tones of color.

I say 'perceive' because that's pretty much exactly what it is.We all 'see' color in a slightly different way, due primarily to the universal laws of physics, and the inherent lengths

of light vectors. What one person will see as one particular shade of grey, another may well look and see something slightly different. The rods and cones in our eyes are also

responsible for our perception of light/color interpretation.

Another issue we are dealing with here Gus is the so-called 'scale effect'( which can be mathmatically calculated, but I will not go into that here). Our perception of color is effected by distance amoungst other things, which also has a part to play in our final interpretation

of color.

I guess ultimately Gus we are all victims to our eyes, brains and the laws of Physics here; in that our models are our 'interpretation'of

the color applied to actual air frames. When we all see a model whose finish we relate directly what we perceive as 'correct', we all jump for joy, yet in reality there may well be significant differences between what is actually present on the aircraft in question, and what we have applied to our models in order to imitate what we perceive as reality.

 

This brings me neatly to what you are looking at now Gus. Only you will know what you perceive as the most correct finish here. I look at what you have done and think 'that looks great!',

but that's just me. Others will disagree, and have valid argument for their claims, and this is quite justified. We are all different,

therefore our interpretations will be slightly different in some cases, quite significantly variant in others.

 

For me Gus, I intend to finish my F-15E in several varying tones of grey, all blending seamlessly into another, and tie it all together with a clear coat slightly tinted and weathering.Underneath the aircraft

I am blending metallic colors with greys to invoke a 'metal grey finish'.

 

In conclusion Gus I feel the question here is 'what do you think of the finish you have achieved here?' Does it 'look' right to you?

At the end of the day Gus, only you can actually see your work, without the dynamics of camera lenses and the interference of secondary light sources.

 

Your thoughts Sir?

[GusMac]

Hi Dennis, thanks for the post. Basically, I'm fairly happy with the effect so I'm going to try and replicate it on the full thing. Hopefully should get a good session at it tomorrow so should have some progress to show.

 

I work as a medical imaging physicist and lecture on it as well and one of the things I always emphasise to students is that you can tweak and optimise the imaging system all you want but you always have to consider the human observer who will look at the image. It's their report that determines the outcome so you have to consider the way they perceive things. There are so many factors that have to be considered and we have spent years trying to mathematically model the way humans look at images and it is nigh on impossible. As you say 'each to their own' about sums it up!

[Dennis.E]

Good Morning Gus;-This really opens up a can of worms for us in the modelling fraternity, doesn't it!!

[GusMac]

I usually sum it up as 'the human is the weak link in the system'!

 

Anyway, got a good few hours at it today and made some decent progress until I ran out of paint, oops. Will try and post some progress pics.

 

Also found my spray booth is way too small for this so may have to invest in a respirator.

[Dennis.E]

Agreed!!

I too discovered I ran out of paint faster when using the airbrush - I use a room with small volumetric area and large windows with the door open.

I also decide how much I will airbrush so I can do a small calculation as to possible spray contamination so atomized spray never reaches

levels where my health may be effected.

I look forward to your photos Gus!

[GusMac]

Right, here are some pics of the progress made before I ran out of paint.

 

 

 

Slight goof where I got a bit carried away and started marbling the areas which will be bare metal - the gloss black primer which will have to go down should sort that out.

 

 

 

I'm pretty happy with how it looks at the moment. I'm also going to try some salt fading on this and some oils, so hopefully it'll add further variety to the surface.

 

Extra paint has arrived but I'm waiting for a respirator I ordered before I have another big painting session. This is too big for the paint booth and the fumes were pretty noxious. I run every day and age is slowing me down enough without adding chemical-induced asthma!

 

As always, all comments and suggestions welcome. Cheers, Gus

[Dennis.E]

Looking good Gus!

[GusMac]

Ok, here's a bit more progress. Apologies the photos are a bit over-exposed - took them outside to take advantage of some nice Autumnal sunshine but it was a bit too bright. Not often a problem up here in October!

 

 

 

 

 

The difference between the greys is quite subtle but that seems to be true for the IDF aircraft of this era. Have ordered some Maketar masks for the main insignia as I want to paint them on before the salt fading. 

 

On that subject does anyone have any advice as to the best enamels for this? I've used Tamiya and Gunze acrylics since I came back to the hobby but they seem to react 'funny' with the salt according to what I've read. I thought I'd try enamels but the last time I used any was the old Airfix and Humbrol pots ladling it on with a brush 30+ years ago. Any thoughts comments as to the best brand for this and thinning materials would be welcome.

Cheers, Gus 

[GusMac]

Oops, anyone else spot the c*** up!? Just started masking for the gloss black primer on the metallic areas and realised I've left too much of the upper surface unpainted. The metallics should start at the panel line approximately 1/3 back from the leading edge of the fins rather than at the leading edge as it currently is sitting. Time to crack out the airbrush and fix that before we proceed.

 

Have been following a great build of a 1/48 F-15I over on MSC who made the same error and even that didn't ring any bells that I'd done the same thing! Ah, well, no real harm done.

[Dennis.E]

Hi Gus,

The water in acrylic based products will react with salt over time (I have tested this, it takes days for any adverse reaction to present) - it doesn't make any real difference, and I do it all the time now with no problems.

In saying that Gus, I have never used enamels with the salt weathering technique as the chemicals tend to 'bond'with the salt and you'll bugger your project mate.

Now I have never actually put this to the test, and I am making purely an educated guess here....perhaps one of our fellow modelers can shed more light on this.

I am currently working on two Revell 32 scale F-15's( apart from a 24 scale BF109G-2 and a vinyl T-Rex named Tiny...), and I have had a dogs life trying to get the metallic sheen on the rear looking 'right'. I think I am going to try Alcad for the first time...

what are you using Gus?...

I have looked into Alcad and it looks the goods Gus - not cheap but the finish looks to my eyes as pretty much spot on. Your thoughts Sir?

(By the way Gus - I WILL be buying a mask before using the Alcad - it's pretty caustic stuff...)

The project is looking good Gus....

[GusMac]

Hi Dennis, sounds like you have plenty on your plate. How are the Revell F15E kits? The Tamiya is very nice but definitely has a few fit issues, well certainly in my paws. The new uber kits like the F4 Corsair seem to be pretty flawless in comparison.

 

I got a 3M mask which has a full set of organic filters and is comfortable even with glasses and an optivisor on! Have certainly read plenty about how noxious the Alclad is so have avoided it, although the results do look pretty spectacular on some of the NMF builds you see. It's the Mr Levelling Thinner I find grabs the throat without the mask. I am going with the Vallejo Metal Color acrylics for the rear areas so fumes shouldn't be an issue. Plan is to start that tomorrow night. What I don't know is how much to thin these for overcoating the base colours to try and replicate the heat effects.

 

Thanks for the info on the salt. I think l will stick with the acrylics as I know just how far I can push it with thinning them. Wouldn't plan to leave the salt on overnight anyway so hopefully shouldn't cause issues.

 

How do you paint a T Rex? Surely it's all guesswork as no skin pigment survives in the fossils? Have seen some pretty cool looking builds on varioous forums though!

 

Anyway, hopefully have some more progress soon.

Cheers, Gus

[Dennis.E]

Hi Gus,

I have to admit here Gus I have been off work for the past 3 months with fractured ribs, so the old work bench has seen more activity

than it has for a long time!

Having built both the Tamiya F-15C and Bunker Buster kits, and now the Revell kits, and with the benefit of years to ponder this question, I can say from an educated standpoint Gus

that literally you get what you pay for, and that is not necessarily a bad thing.

Revell aim their products (or rather did back in the 80's when these Eagles were initially released)at the Fathers' and Sons' sitting at the kitchen table putting a great kit together

and bonding at the same time. These products were also aimed at a set price point to achieve this marketing goal.

Tamiya sit at the other end of the commercial table, and conform to the age old Japanese axiom '100% or nothing'.

The Board of Directors at Tamiya aim at perfection, or as close as their technology and Engineering prowess will allow. Price point is a secondary concern, as market research would have told Tamiya that modelers will pay top dollar for top product.

I agree.

If I had the money, I would go Tamiya, but only because I am detail orientated (being an Engineer). Recently, I put together Revells old 32 scale F-14A Tomcat; does it rate with Tamiya's venerable kit? No.

Does it compare with Trumpeters kit? Not on your life. Did I enjoy it? You bet! A large box and a lot of plastic parts for not a lot of money that I enjoyed

from start to finish.

 

I am still in two minds about this Alcad Gus - the finish really is the best you can get I feel (and certainly closer to accuracy than I have been able to achieve with my Vallejo products)but it is costly, and it is dangerous.

I closely monitor safety in my room when airbrushing; some quick fluid dynamics calculations and two large open windows and an open door help!

If it's okay with you Gus I'll see how you get on here - I accept that I may well be the cause of my downfall, but I keep the door open on my decision whether or not to proceed with Alcad at this point.

In the event I do, it will be most certainly with a mask and latex gloves!(It gives me great pleasure to go into the chemist and ask the girls rather sheepishly for some latex gloves...)

 

Good luck with your attempt Gus - hopefully it all works out and I can follow in your footsteps!

 

Tiny the T-Rex sits at the head of my workbench in greys and browns, with some vallejo mud around the feet and under the tail (or rather, it will when I get him finished).

A change is as good as a rest, and something different keeps my interest up. I'm also eyeing up the Velociraptor!

 

I look forward to your next post Gus - I'll have a good look for the missiles I offered you Gus a wee while ago. You are more than welcome to what I can come up with - I just have to be careful with the ribcage

rummaging around that I don't do anything silly..

 

Regards

Dennis

[Dennis.E]

Good Evening Gus,

I have found the missiles you were after Sir - there are 3 complete missiles, and one has one ventral guidance vane missing.

I'll pop them in the post for you early next week Gus with my complements.

 

Regards

Dennis

[GusMac]

Sorry to hear about the ribs Dennis. Hope it doesn't hurt too much.

 

I laid down the gloss primer tonight so will hopefully get the first of the metallics down tomorrow. The Vallejo paints certainly don't smell badly at all so the mask was barely needed. If you are looking for one I can heartily recommend the 3M masks - very reasonable as well. Working in healthcare has a few perks, one of which is easy access to a ready supply of latex gloves.

 

This is the first big Tamiya kit I've done and it is very nice but I've previously done Revell Ju88 and Ju87 and you do get a lot for your money with those.

 

Thanks for the help with the missile, hopefully the dog stays well away this time.

[Dennis.E]

It appears that Revell Management have implemented differing commercial structures with their products, in that you still have the lower end, or rather, kits with fewer parts that are usually re-relases

up to kits like the Ju88 and He111. I too have done one of the Ju88's Gus and it was a quite beautiful peice of engineering. In saying that there were a few areas I did question, but that's the Engineer in me I'm afraid...

 

As you say Gus, and I strongly agree, that it has to come down to what you get for your hard earned cash, and the 'happiness' quotient you

glean from your project.

 

How about I include a Phoenix missile in your package so you can adopt a diversionary tactic for the wee dog??

[GusMac]

I'm sure he'd like the taste of Phoenix, he is quite the gourmet! His latest little titbit was the keyfob for my daughter's moped.

 

I haven't tried any of the recent Revell offerings like the Fw190 but the feedback again seems to be that they are good value for money. My only gripe with the Ju88 was the fit of the gondola but that might just have been my construction skills.

[Dennis.E]

Gus, a wee box should arrive on your doorstep in the next day or two Sir - including a nice fat juicy Phoenix for pup!!!

[GusMac]

Thanks Dennis. I've made a bit more progress, got the metalwork painted in various shades of the Vallejo Metals - pale burnt metal, magnesium and jet exhaust. Just need to get the turkey feathers done and then these can be weathered. Have ordered some of the Uschi van der Rosten metal powders to try with this. Plan for the weekend is to use the Maketar masks and get the insignia done. Will try and get some pics soon.

[Dennis.E]

I'm very interested to see how you go with these products Gus...

[GusMac]

Hi Dennis, the parcel arrived today, so thank you very much. The Phoenix is quite a beast in 1/32 so it should hopefully distract 'Salty the Destroyer' if necessary.

 

Unmasking of the insignia should happen tomorrow, so I'll try and get some images before a gloss coat ready for the salt fading. There may be a slight hiatus then as I practice on an old kit as I don't want to screw this up.