Out of Stock and Backordered

[Peterpools]

I've been trying to purchase AM and even the kit (s) themselves for two projects I want to start. No matter how many venders I checkout, I'll need to order parts of each project from two or three venders, making shipping insane and price for putting the build together ridiculous. I know it's not the vendors fault(?) but the hobby in general.

I have builds on hold waiting for AM, projects that I'm still wondering if all the pre-build effort is worth it and projects that I've just given up even trying to put together. Yes, it is possible to find what you want but as I keep adding up the individual shipping costs, it becomes as expensive as nearly the kit itself and as expensive as a lot of the AM as well. And then there is ebay where you can find a good deal of what is needed but will seem to pay a premium price and quite frequently one of the most expensive options. 

Maybe it is just that there is too much AM and stocking it is just too expensive. In many cases, It seems the hot' items that finally come into stock, sell out nearly just as quickly and then you need to wait for another restock which at times is months or more, if you miss ordering it for whatever the reason.

  

 

 

 

[CANicoll]

Peter, I had a similar experience with the F-4 bits from ResKit - only 1 vendor had it all, and they were in Australia.  Even then I had to wait for something to come in stock.  Getting frustrating to have to wait on the essentials like a certain color of paint.  I'm getting to the point where if I don't have it now, and can't find it quickly, then it's an OOB build.  The thing about shipping is that the rates you pay are not the rates the company pays.  Where I work we ship parts around the world.  There are times people will pay $25 for shipping a $30 part, but it costs us $11 in shipping (FedEx) or we charge $16 for USPS, but we pay $6.  I hate to see that.

[Peterpools]

Chris

Right with you and those shipping charges profits are eye openers for sure.

Just canned the two upcoming projects until what I need is available without knocking myself out and finally settled on my next project where everything I needed was in stock form just one vendor all ordered and hopefully nothing winds up backordered.   

[ScottsGT]

Yep. Story of my life.  Go to needing one certain color and OOS at all of my usual online sources.  Check the 2 Gundam stores and one of them sometimes has it.  I think that’s why I have so much paint.  Not paying shipping for 1 bottle.  Might as well get a half dozen colors.  
One reason I shop Sprue Bros mostly is their email notifications when something comes back in stock. 
I keep a “grocery list” on my phone for when those OOS items show up.  
Now aside from the hobby, I order car parts online.  One of my go-to vendors is Rock Auto.  Gotta be careful with them too.  They will show everything in stock, but it’s from different warehouses.  Yep, you get to pay separate shipping for items split between warehouses.  It can add up fast.  
 

As far as aftermarket, I am now trying to buy for kits I have because here today, gone tomorrow.  Cutting Edge, DMold, Fisher, Rhino, Zacto models, G Factor- just to name a few greats gone now. 
Eduard makes a production run and never again.  Buy now or cry later! 

[Peterpools]

Scott

Right with you and it just seems this is how everything functions today. When it comes to preparing for a build, I try to buy what I need to fill in what I already have for the build and if I can't buy everything as a single order, maybe two different vendors if it is the only way splitting the initial, I either shelve pr postpone the project. The only other option as Chris said, is to go 100% what's in the kit box. Back in the days, the 1970's when the hobby took off for me, there was virtually no AM except for decals and maybe a bit of resin - Verlinden. If you wanted to detail your build; it was called scratch building.  

Just seems right now we're almost forced to buy any kits and AM when they are first released, knowing that when we need them down the road, most likely they will be OOS or OOP.

One thing I absolutely put my foot down is split shipping from multiple locations or pay for BO items a second shipping charge. Shipping is way too expensive as it is. 

 

[HubertB]

There are a number of different issues mentioned here :

1) Shipping costs. I own (for a few more weeks) a company, and what we charge to our customers for logistics is meant to cover the costs, which it barely does, when I look at our yearly balance sheets. Yet we charge about 15/16 € per shipment, for parcels which weigh between a few grams and a few kilograms (the smallest part we sell weighs 4 centigrams, yet it is a precision-machined part). We tend to forget the miraculous aspect of modern-day logistics, where a parcel can leave a point one day, and arrive a few thousand kilometers away the next day, having in-between made about three or four stops in different hubs and sub-hubs. All of this for the price of two (or one, in certain places) mojitos … Nothing really to complain about …

2) Postal costs : we enter a different issue here. In any country, it is part of the mission of a Post Office to be able to deliver a mail or parcel to ANY point of the said country.  And we still expect the Post Office to live on its mission. Whereas this is a costly obligation, because it implies large staffing just to be able to cover the physically huge network of adresses. But physical mail has dwindled to very little in the last 30 years, thanks to new technologies. Whatever costs are not covered by stamps, is paid for by taxpayers, or by postage’s costs of parcels. These have frankly become outrageous nowadays, and the Post Offices are pricing themselves out of the logistics market, when they still HAVE to have the organization implied by their mission.  A catch 22 situation, but I personally see no way out of it. Only the times when I bought kits on eBay in the US are gone …

3) Availability of items. The benefit of internet is that it has allowed access to items most of us would not have dreamt of a few decades ago. But it goes with an hyper-segmentation of the markets, and to a shift from a few mass-produced items to a multitude of small production runs. This is against the logic of improving production costs by spreading fixed costs and R&D costs over a large quantity of the same item. This pushes complexity costs, and induces potentially high stock costs, and a significant cash-out to finance those.

Consequence: companies run small volumes of production to be certain to sell all of it quickly, and distributors will have to spread their bets on so many items that they will order minimum quantities as well, with the risk of not being able to satisfy all demands … It is a well-known rule that the margin requirement of a distributor are in direct relation to the number of references held in stock. Hence the low prices of the hard discounters, and the high ones of the big department stores …

My conclusions:

- we live a in a great time, that overall has proven an incredible benefit for modellers, by giving them access to items they could not dream of in their youth, and helping them to improve their skills, and achieve results once belonging to the great masters only.

- this however goes with potential frustrations generated by the mismatch between our expectations and the availability of items to fulfill those expectations

- but, there is always the last resort solution of scratchbuilding the improvements we let AM manufacturers offer us. This said, I will never be able to match the quality and scale fidelity of a Quinta set, for instance

- considering all of the above, like Scott suggested, be on alert so that we do not miss the narrow window when a kit will still be in stock, and the AM producers have finished releasing the items for this kit, and then jump on everything without remorse

End of the pontificating lecturing 🤪

Hubert

[ScottsGT]

1 hour ago, HubertB said:

- we live a in a great time, that overall has proven an incredible benefit for modellers, by giving them access to items they could not dream of in their youth, and helping them to improve their skills, and achieve results once belonging to the great masters only.-

Hubert

So true.  Also along those lines, a few months back my son that’s building custom Corvettes now asked me, “Dad, how did you do it before the internet?”

From finding obscure parts or fittings to just knowledge how to do something.  How to do a motor swap, how to find used motors, what transmission will fit the car body and motor……

He about died when I told him at one time we had to fill out order forms and mail them in with a check or CC number or pay for COD.  

[CANicoll]

17 minutes ago, ScottsGT said:

So true.  Also along those lines, a few months back my son that’s building custom Corvettes now asked me, “Dad, how did you do it before the internet?”

From finding obscure parts or fittings to just knowledge how to do something.  How to do a motor swap, how to find used motors, what transmission will fit the car body and motor……

He about died when I told him at one time we had to fill out order forms and mail them in with a check or CC number or pay for COD.  

Or look people and shops up in the yellow pages, then have to CALL and talk to someone, who may direct us to someone else.....

[Peterpools]

Hubert

Very well said but the issues of so much of what I need to order for a particular project is becoming more and more frustrating. I do try to do what Scott suggested and buy AM that I might need in the future, but that strategy gets to be very expensive and in the long run, the AM stash is overflowing with items that most likely will never be used or needed.

Such is the rational for our large stashes to have the kit we want on hand when we THINK we might want to build it. I'm willing to bet for the most of us, we will never get around to building even half our stash as the years and time keeps moving forward. Newer kits immerge which renders a lot of the older kits 'old hat' and 'obsolete'. I have friends from past club days whose stash numbered well over 300 - 600-700 kits and they seem to show up at shows and competitions trying to sell off a good portion at a loss to just recuperate some of the money invested, as we never could imagine what the future of the hobby would be. 

Yes, the Hub and Spoke system of parcel delivery is costly but that's the system they use. Personally add a few more days to the delivery process and lower the price. 

Yes, completely agree the real issue is the smaller cottage companies just can't meet the demand and the large online vendors need to put a substantial; size order together to lower their shipping costs and restock cost. For me the time an item is out of stock just seems to be 'forever' and then the hunt starts. I've pretty much stopped ending my searches with buying on ebay as the prices there are just too high. I do look and if I should find what I need at a reasonable cost, I'll buy it but more and more, I pass this option buy. 

The future for the younger modelers is 3D printing and just buying the software to print out an item at home. For me, those days will never happen as I'm a Baby Boomer and for the most part, that technology is way about my/our abilities. Yes I can even see the day, most kits will be 3D printed at home, the world is changing.

 

 

[CANicoll]

I think the shift will be that the main parts of the kits, fuselage and wings especially, might come from the major vendors while the smaller (and faster and less expensive to print) pieces are done at home on your 3D printer.  I know of someone who tried to print a 1/32 fuselage and wings and had lots of problems with warping.  Most of those machines are not built to print such large pieces.

[Peterpools]

Chris

I'm willing to bet, in the not too distant future, the mainstream of the hobby will be 3D printing the entire kit at home - we just buy the software. Agreed with the present technology, there are issues and problems but given a few mor years, and it will be a new ballgame. 

I been researching the 3D printed large scale car model site Carl listed the link for and the kits are amazing. Yup, it's the future for sure.

 

[ScottsGT]

I remember hearing film cameras are dead too.   There’s a big resurgence in film these days.  I see maybe a few companies putting out files for kits, but are you (the average modeler) going to invest in a printer, gain the knowledge to run it, space to put it, clean it, etc…vs. opening up a new kit?  I for one would never go that route with all the kits in my stash. 
I do however see a market for obscure kits printed by a vendor and shipped like a kit.  

[Peterpools]

HI Scott

Over my lifetime, I've seen and been part of the group that says; nope, will never work or change how we do things whether it's modeling, photography, music, tv and almost everything else - I'm pretty conservative by nature. 

I've seen the cockpits of airplanes change from the old analog steam gauges and VOR navigation to glass cockpits and GPS - it's a whole new world and how things are done today. When glass cockpits first came into existence, and you went for an instrument rating with a then new Glass Cockpit, it was a limited rating for those type of cockpit setup only. Today, it's the standard.

Besides flying, my other true passion has been photography, going back to the early 1960's. Film was the only way and when digital first came out, I was in the camp that said the prints look awful, the cameras were not good at all l and wouldn't last - little did I know. Today we have incredible cameras; I shoot with a Nikon Z8 and do all my own printing. Yes, I still shot a small amount of film here and there up to about a year or so ago and then stopped. You are so right as there is a small resurgence of film but it's a very small niche market and with the rising costs of film, processing and chemicals increasing, it's will most likely never go beyond what it is now. 

I feel the same about 3D printing - it will only keep getting better and better and I agree and meet you halfway in that the market may never go all 3D printing in our lifetime, but a big portion will or might be offered it as an option. As printers get better and faster, I wouldn't be surprised to see model manufacturers abandon ejection molding and go all 3D. Of course, what we have now would never cut the mustard but it's the future for sure. 

Just my two cents.

 

[ScottsGT]

Yea, 20-30 years from now?  Who knows. Maybe my kids and grandkids will still be working on my stash! 
I was there too for the film to digital change.  I worked with a wedding photog that taught me a lot about lighting, fill flash, etc. Man, you’re right about those early digital cameras. He bought one of the early Fuji digital cams.  When it started taking off, he retired because the investment wasn’t worth his time left in the industry.  
I have an old Canon 5D classic I haven’t taken out of the bag in 4 years.  I should be ashamed.  Small collection of L glass to go with it.  
I really need to get involved again with photography. What pissed me off was Canon quit supporting the old bodies in their editing software.  All it did was auto download when you plug in. Now I have to pull the card and put it in a reader and download images manually.  
And now the price of any basic full frame Canon body is out of touch with the occasional hobbyist.  
But living out on a lake now, I could get some spectacular wildlife and sunset pics.  I decided years ago sunrise pics are too early in the morning.  

[Peterpools]

Scott

Most likely you're closer to when all this might happen them me and I know I surely won't be around to see it. Yup, I know the feelings well when Nikon stopped supporting a lot of their older cameras but stayed with the F mount until going all out mirrorless and finally went to the Z mount. I took a small beating going from film to digital and then going from digital to mirrorless.  

Holy smokes, living on a lake - the photographic opportunities surely are endless.  I refuse these days to do sunrises as well in the summer as it's way too early and wait for the winter when getting up is a lot easier for these old bones. I've always been a landscape and scenic photographer and these days have been doing a lot of urban landscape work at sunset and during the blue hour - always trying to learn new techniques and disciplines. 

Pull out your 5D, charge the battery and do some shooting - you're feel wonderful when you see those new files.

📷

 

[Jbert27]

Somehow, I am holding the line nd not moving to mirrorless.  Too much "invested" in Nikon digital to move on....

[CANicoll]

4 hours ago, Jbert27 said:

Somehow, I am holding the line nd not moving to mirrorless.  Too much "invested" in Nikon digital to move on....

Ditto.  I like my D7200 and small cache of lenses.

[Peterpools]

Most Nikon F mount lenses can be used on any Nikon mirrorless camera using the Nikon FTZ adapter. I still have a few F mount lenses and with the adapter they work perfectly and all camera functions work as well. There is no reason to go mirrorless if you're more then happy with your digital Nikon camera or for that matter, any digital camera.

Mirrorless cameras and the lenses designed for them are incredible in what they can do. Mirrorless is the way of the future in photography; as the saying goes, once you tried it, there is no going back.