Clunkmeister

Which is why I go back to these two pictures. My build using EagleCal lower markings, and an actual slightly used Hawk 81 of the AVG. To my eye, the actual lower roundel from the Eagle sheet (on my model) is quite a bit smaller than depicted on the bent airplane. Also, at least according to pictures, the lower roundel is noticeably larger than the upper. I will continue looking online to see if I can find a definitive straight on view of the upper wing roundel. And if Carl feels that the color is good, I’ll use it, as it’s a big enough issue to me to warrant me using the kit roundels on the lower surfaces. Plus, I haven’t sealed it in place yet so removing the Eagle decals is simple and easy. If my build was all but finished as is peter’s is, I’d not go there. Obviously, everyone has their bugaboos, and to me this is important enough to my way of thinking that I’ll take the time to do it I’m anal enough where it would bug me forevermore Like many say, scale modeling, lacking exact references and firsthand witnesses, one rolls the dice and in the end, it’s in the eye of the builder Peter, I couldn’t agree more regarding decal research. I think back to Kitty Hawk decent plastic, but a gorgeous set of in register decals so riddled with errors as to be a joke. And Tamiya’s famous 1/32” thick decals 🤣✅

Carl, I did the same as you. I just checked the very last place I expected to find the answer: the kit decals. Amazingly, the kit decals feature a lower roundel that is noticeably larger get diameter than the upper decals, and noticeably larger than the EagleCal decals, which feature roundels all the same size. As the lower roundels were out of the sun and faded little if any, I feel comfortable trying them. Unfortunately, I’m not positive on the color. It almost appears too dark.

Well, the Montex masks are unavailable. Life goes on…

Montex appears to have nailed it, although I question their use of the Angel figure on the port side only. Eagle has you do it on both sides. Also, Montex shows some VERY dark blues being used.

Hey Carl, actually, Montex looks closer to me… CE is the same as all the others. Maybe it’s telling us to leave well enough alone?

I’m anxious to see, because both GWH and EagleCals got it wrong. I’m quite honestly thinking of ripping them off and making some masks in the correct size. my concern is that since they’re already settled in with multiple applications of Micro Sol, it may be too late. Even the US Military got it wrong!

And along with that, despite me lighting the color mixes greatly, I may yet be waaaay too dark, still.

Exactly. I think we all, including the restoration experts, got it all wrong. The pictures of the originals show very large roundels. Also note that they are all early Tomahawks, not replacement P-40E’s. That bottom pic of that very slightly used Tomahawk leaves absolutely no doubt. It’s almost a straight-on picture, with no oblique angles whatsoever

I’m not a P-40 expert, but check that bottom picture. The ailerons are deflected, yet the elevators are neutral. So the stick is loose, not secured back with the lap belt or left to flop forward. Is there a control lock on a P-40? Or is there a bobweight or spring that returns the elevators to neutral?

And I’m thinking the red fuselage band may be too dark as well. Of course, that’s an easy remark and respray, but still… dangit

And Peter, the more I look at it, the more your build looks amazing to me. Just a GREAT job!

This is too much head exercise for this early in the morning.

I tried to follow the placement diagram on Eagle’s sheet, but everyone knows that Jerry was a Luftwaffe guru, and this certainly ain’t Luftwaffe. And then there are these pics that I just found, which may mean we’re ALL wrong. Those of course, are the real deal, and those certainly seem bigger than any of ours. Was there an absolute standard? We’re they painted on using a standard issue mask, I ain’t got no clue. Thoughts?

Hey Peter, dang, we have so little to work on! LOL. I did a quick search online, as well as checking your build, and everyone seems different. As we say in Texas “Ah’m a scratchin’ my hay-ed over thee-yis here conundrum”. So here is yours, mine, and that restoration you documented

I had the great debate re: upper wing roundels as well, and simply decided to place my faith in Jerry Crandall. Of course I used the faded option, and they’ll be faded even more, today.

Peter, it’s sad, actually. Today, I have no doubt that it’s a ton safer than even 30 years ago, but yeah, the spirit of the thing is gone now. Back then, oil burners were really still only used by the big airlines and the military. Yeah, the Twin Otter was around, but it was still relatively rare. Avgas ruled the day, but today, avgas is getting harder and harder to find, or at least decent avgas that won’t tear up the insides of an 1820 or 2800. I’m an old dinosaur, I guess.

Licking and sticking on the stickers now. 🤣 I’m using the Eagle Editions set for 3rd Pursuit Squadron. 3rd Pursuit seems to be the most famous of the three Squadrons, if for no other reason than it’s definitely the most colorful. I’m doing Chuck Older’s White 68 off the Eagle sheet, which contains enough decals to model 4 aircraft from one sheet. These Eagle sheets are a great value in that respect, and are extremely accurate as well, having been extensively researched by Jerry Crandall. The sheet even includes the RAF roundel overlaid by the Chinese roundels, as seen on several AVG kites.

Believe me, Peter, you use what you have, and you have what you use. IFR up there is “I follow Rivers, Railroads, or Roads”, but quite honestly, rivers were the most common. Winds aloft info was one of the most important things you got, and being able to read isobars on the weather charts properly gave you a decent idea of winds aloft between reporting stations. Add to that the dew point, and suddenly you were armed with 90% of what you needed to know. Dead reckoning is simple if you can see ground drift, but with the flat, featureless tundra up the central arctic and the almost constant ground drift, you had beautiful stratus below, and 10 ft below that, sharp rocks. So between ADF plots, you see your drift on the chart based upon the track you THINK you’re following. A lot of assumptions, but if we had a FUBAR, at least with radio and FSS available who could at the worst, listen for the sound of engines and relay it in real-time, we had it 2000% better than the likes of Punch Dickens, Max Ward, Robert Byrd, and Tom Lamb in their Fairchild 71’s, Fokker Supers, and Junkers W34’s and 52s… ADF is as handy as a pocket on a shirt when used correctly, but, unfortunately, is a lost art today. If the lights go out today, I fear that 80% of the new breed will auger in, 10% will get lucky, and the last 10% spent some time with grey haired old veterans chugging around in clapped out DC-3s. That U-2 driver was most likely either a Vet, or learned from one. TACAN was still new then. Either way, with no electrics, he had nothing but sectionals and his head to rely on.

Well, after posting my build on Peter’s thread (duhhh), I fixed it. 🤣

Oh crap. Peter, I was posting MY build updates on ayOuR build thread. Duhhh. And nobody said a word. Sorry, Buddy, my mistake. If I mess up, please, someone tell me!

Peter, I assume you’ve used two ADFs to triangulate your position, or to shoot an approach? That’s a skill that definitely turns rusty with disuse. But like you, I’m one of those old timers who could navigate quite comfortably without GPS, DME, or even a VOR. Not to the same precision, of course, but enough to be able to grab the outer marker, localizer, and nail the glideslope. All at night, dead tired, and with drifting snow and ground fog 100’ to the surface.

Ain’t that the truth. Oftentimes up north, ADF was all we had, as VOR was line of sight. Having no idea of the winds aloft and you only had one weak ADF signal, which was often a commercial AM radio station, you could carve the great comma in the sky tracking towards it. 🤣 Dual ADF receivers and two actual ADF signals was an absolute luxury. We could hit the outer marker with just that alone. VOR was such a pinky-in-the-air luxury. 🤣

Another article on this. Apparently, this was super secret for many years. Dad was a radar tech in the RCAF, so I spent many of my childhood years on these small stations, as well as at Tinker AFB where the training center was located and he got posted every few years. We moved all around. Moosonee, Gypsumville, Alsask, Dana, Yorkton, Penhold, etc, we moved around a lot Most of these Stations were in very remote areas in the forests, and had a population of about 300 people, a mixture of USAF and RCAF. They were called the “Pinetree Line”. These Stations were all a part of NORAD, which at the time consisted of 3 distinct lines of distant early warning (DEW) lines: The Mid Canada Line, the Pinetree Line, and the DEW Line. They all fed info back to NORAD HQ in Cheyenne Mountain and it’s backup bunker in North Bay. This was all a part of our protection system agains Soviet bombers and ICBMs, and gave Cheyenne Mountain it’s info needed to launch the bombers, missiles, or scramble the NORAD alert birds. The entire system was called SAGE, or Semi Autonomous Ground Environment. It was a BIG DEAL back then, and was super secret. Intruders would be shot on site. That U-2 was an integral part of the system, and losing it intact would have been catastrophic. At least Power aircraft was destroyed. The Soviets got a lot of scrap metal, that’s it. If you ever get bored, read up on SAGE and the DEW system. I lived it as a kid, and to me, rock solid security became a way of life. Today, most of it is gone SAGE was superseded by AWACS as they became capable enough and technology reached a point where it was reliable. Some DEW stations are still in use, but most were decommissioned my the 1990s. The Mid Canada and Pinetree Lines are completely shut down. Today’s AWACS does the same exact job, but is mobile and compact. Those were the days http://lswilson.dewlineadventures.com/u2/

http://flinflonheritageproject.com/wp-content/wppa-depot/pdfs/1022280.pdf

Looks great, Luke. Looking forward to see your work. We have a forum here for that called LSM Work in Progress, feel free to post there, and you can also check out our other gifted builders there as well. If you are posting some tips and such, we have a Hints and Tips sub forum as well that you can post in. Some of our builders here are true masters of the art.