imatt88 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Hey all, This might sound like a stupid question, but how many 32nd scale 109 kits are actually out there? I was out of the modeling loop for a couple of years while I played with trains, and when I came back I couldn't believe the amount of new 32nd scale kits that had been released during my absence. I've always been a fan of the 109, and the amount of new 109 releases is mind boggling. My question is, how many varients of the 109 were there, and can you model them all in 32nd scale? What is the difference between the "BF" and "ME" designations? I would like to model an "A" version and the last (whatever that one might be) version to do a comparison of how far they came during their production life. I've always wanted to do that but I'm not sure if it can be done in 32nd scale.. I know there are a ton of 109 Gurus here, and I'm hoping everyone will chime in and educate me on the 109. Thanks, Cheers, Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmayhew Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Hi and welcome Bf / Me Wouldn't get too hung up on it Bf = Bayerische Flugzeug and was I think the original designation but you will find both in Luftwaffe / RLM docs and pilots / personnel certainly said "m e 109" etc Kits: Lots! E DML and Eduard; DML is the best kit of the two hands down Trumpeter - cheap but not as accurate; 'looks like a 109' but purists will avoid them (I personally wouldn't touch it) F Hasegawa and Trumpeter Hassy is best kit but expensive; has lots of aftermarket available Trumpy F-4 is more a G-2; looks nice but lots of detail errors; cheap G Hasegawa owned this market - mostly accurate and lots of aftermarket about; expensive Trumpeter - as above: cheaper but with more detail inaccuracies Revell new tool: not to be confused with Hassy reboxings; will be G-6 I think; high hopes but seems has slightly different set of inaccuracies to the Hasegawa kit; will be cheap in UK / Europe K Hasegawa only As above - only game in town but quite good; lots of a m available; pricey; look for Revell reboxings Avoid anything I have not mentioned above eg Hasegawa E etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imatt88 Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share Posted June 30, 2013 What was the last version built for the Luftwaffe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamme Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 K-4 Cheers, Jamme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_ Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Ian You asked how many versions there were. This link takes you to an 'entry level resume http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Bf_109_variants#Bf_109_A.2FB.2FC.2FD You also asked what could be modelled. The early versions (A, B, C & D) are catered for by the A2Zee series of Alley Cat conversions (designed to fit the Eduard kit) link http://www.a2zeemodels.co.uk/alley-cat-aircraft-sets-132-scale-325-c.asp these are all excellent and easy to use. He also makes a conversion to make the Bf 109T (Trager - aircraft carrier) version. Again, very nice resin and well thought out conversion. Floyd Werner makes a couple of conversions for the Eduard kit to make pre war competition aircraft. Link http://www.wernerswings.com/product.html - scroll down to the 'SPECIAL RELEASES/ LIMITED EDITIONS' There is still a good quality Aires conversion for the Hasegawa (Revell) Bf 109G-4/6 kits, gives you all you need to convert these to an F-1/2/3/4 (I think). Radu Brinzan makes a decal and conversion to make the Bf 109Ga-6, a Romanian G-6 with different guns and a different bulge over them. Link http://www.radubstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_65&products_id=190 Best way to see what's available is to use Hannants' search engine. A search for 1/32 Bf 109 came back with 277 results - http://www.hannants.co.uk/search/index.php?product_category_id=&product_division_id=&manufacturer_id=&code=&product_type_id=&scale_id=953&keyword_search=Bf+109&setPerPage=25¤cy_id= Another nice link of 1/32 109 add ons etc is here http://www.ultracast.ca/Aircraft%20Accessories%20-%2032%20Scale%20-%20Bf%20109.htm What isn't available...? Biggest omission in my view is the Bf 109V-1, first of them all. Bf 109G-12 two seat trainer sorely needed, Though maybe out of your sphere of interest, Grey Matter have just released a beautiful Hispano Buchon conversion for the Hasegawa G-4/6 http://www.greymatterfigures.com/index.php?p=2&id=121. Finally, Ciro Models make a 1/32 conversion to make the Hasegawa Bf 109G-14 into an Avia CS-199 (also used by Israel). So, you can do most of the Bf109 series, just that 109V-1 and G-12 really needed.... Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmayhew Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 What you can't do: An Erla G-10 or so-called '110 cowling' - there was a conversion around yonks ago but it has disappeared. Come on people - why someone hasn't stepped up and made this available as an aftermarket conversion is beyond me. I feel it woul sell way more than some Spanish or pre-war conversion (Luftwaffe sells!!!) *sigh* Back to your original question, I would always suggest a good trawl of Wikipedia first up: it gives you an overall view, even if the detail is lacking / incorrect some times. And then the Hannants website to see what's around. And then your question. That way you should have the experts (not me, but Matt Low is certainly one of them ) giving you the expert info. All the best Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_ Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Thanks Nick I strongly suspect that the way in which the Revell kit is engineered indicates that they'll do the 'standard' and Erla G-10s....? If they don't, it'd be relatively straightforward for aftermarket to do so.... One conversion I forgot about is this http://www.capehobby.com/Aircraft_Resin_Models_CHG--BF109H_CONVERSION_KIT_2.html though it is something of an unknown quantity, especially in terms of what a/c it actually represents... Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imatt88 Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share Posted June 30, 2013 Matt and Nick, Thanks for all the information about the 109. It gets very confusing with so many versions out there. I checked out the "H" conversion. I've never heard of it, and it looks like a "G" or "K" to me... Cheers, Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Matt and Nick have summed everything up nicely... If you are interested in an Dragon/Cyber Hobby E variant... I would check out Sprue Brothers as normally have them at a good price around that $30-35 mark. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imatt88 Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 Yup, I found out what an "H" vesion is, it was a high altitude recce version. Be suprised what you find out when you read.... Thanks everyone for their input and info Cheers, Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikester Posted July 2, 2013 Members Share Posted July 2, 2013 Steve Gallacci who did the masters for the Erla G-10 conversion set for Eagle Parts said he was going to approach Jerry Crandall about another production run a couple of years back, haven't seen anything come from it. If Jerry gets enough requests, maybe he'll roll it back out. Of course a Revell version that didn't require grafting on a resin nose would be nice. Floyd Werner is also taking pre-orders on an Avia S-199 conversion set that will use the Hasegawa G-14 as the donor kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmayhew Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Steve G by his own admission was battling severe depression (had some conversations with him probably a couple of years ago) so I wouldn't hold your breath if any form of new tooling was required... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikester Posted July 3, 2013 Members Share Posted July 3, 2013 Steve G by his own admission was battling severe depression (had some conversations with him probably a couple of years ago) so I wouldn't hold your breath if any form of new tooling was required... I believe he still has the original masters, just looking to make another production run feasible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmayhew Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 I believe he still has the original masters, just looking to make another production run feasible. if you need me, you can reach me at "believe it when I see it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_ Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I must say that, having checked my refs, a totally accurate Erla 109G-10 (or K-4 - apparently there is a K-4 with the Erla refined cowls) has a different stbd wing fairing at the front. Shaped to clear the lower engine mount, as that part is attached to the 'common' fuselage section a new fuselage half would be required... Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imatt88 Posted July 14, 2013 Author Share Posted July 14, 2013 Cool! got any pics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imatt88 Posted July 21, 2013 Author Share Posted July 21, 2013 Anyone read the the reviews about RoG's soon to be released 109G over on LSP? Thoughts? I put it on my bucket list...... Cheers, Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Anyone read the the reviews about RoG's soon to be released 109G over on LSP? Thoughts? I put it on my bucket list...... Cheers, Ian We have some special planned for this kit... More info will be coming soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artful69 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Ok ... I'm from the much maligned group (read leper colony) of ... "if it looks like a 109 ..." Being a "Basic" modeler ... I don't count rivets or measure panel lines etc ... millimeters of inacuracies don't phase me ... I don't like 'drama' - meaning craploads of putty, scratch building ... or huge outlays in currency. For me ... Trumpeters E (Emil) series is a mixture ... In the positive, it is highly detailed kit with some cool extras that other (more expensive) manufacturers left to AM ... In other words I feel that Trumpeter gives you more 'Bang-for-buck' ... they assemble with relatively no drama ... compared to the "old tool" Hasegawa Emil (not to be confused with the new tool F and G series) that had me shying away from the brand for at least a few years afterward in much the same way as a regularly beaten wife will shy away from her husband!!! **Warning: Do NOT buy any old tool Hasegawa!!** - unless you like pain! But Nick is correct in that Trumpeter have a bunch of noted accuracy issues to the trained eye ... I think that this widespread criticism and dissapointment was amplified because of the comparitively brilliant level of a couple of their previous releases ... (the Me 262 and some American prop dive bomber - I forget which one). Really, to most of the experts, it seems that they just threw the kit together without a lot of loving attention to the detail that counted. Lower fuse shape and rudder size were just a couple worth a mention. The G's were a MUCH better effort (The F, of course, looking like a G-2 ... was released as just that, a few months later, much to the amusement and bronx cheers of the modeling community) ... but the rudder was still undersized - and remains so today ... For all the enigma and frustration that trumpeter are (nothing frustrates so much as someone who CAN do better, but doesn't) ... I like them - they are user friendly - if you don't have the modelers version of OCD For me ... at my skill level ... and time prepared to spend on any one given kit ... Cyber-Hobby for the 'E' series if possible, otherwise Trumpeter Hasegawa for the 'F' Trumpeter for the 'G-2' Revell new tool 'G-6' ... otherwise toss between Trumpeter and Hasegawa Toss between Trumpeter and Hasegawa for later 'G' variants Hasegawa for the 'K' My two cents, Rog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artful69 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Rog - I think I'd generally agree with your list. All things being equal, I'd certainly take the more accurate kit, but I'd also sacrifice a degree of dimensional accuracy for better engineering or superior detail or a better build experience. Yes ... I'm kind of the same (if I was really THAT picky about the accuracy I would probably shoot myself before buying either!!) ... as I said bang-for-buck I lean toward the Trumpeter ... but I understand where the gripes come from ... their 32' Swordfish and me 262 ranges are excellent! My biggest goat is the G-6 I think. The Trumpy kit gets routinely savaged for the undersized rudder, but let's be honest, the Hasegawa kit has its share of issues as well...poorly shaped spinner, opening of the supercharger intake, a tendency (in every one I've test-fitted) of the tail to exhibit a slight warp, basically detail-less gear doors...I believe I read somewhere that it's also short - and this was something corrected in the 109F. As I said above ... I think that expectations were set very high for the Trumpeter 109 due to their previously excellent releases and that has lead to the insane amount of kit bashing it has recieved. Prior to the Trumpeter release of ANY 109, Hasegawa was bashed a little because of the flaws in them and lack of detail that had AM companies churning out fixes while rubbing their hands with glee at the cash rolling in. From what I can see, the Trumpeter G series is pretty decent in detail and excellent value for money - with the exception of the rudder (which of course, I must say that I don't really notice all that much). Can't wait to play with the new Revell, though! Me either ... I've had a good look at the sprue shots posted over on LSP ... there are a couple of smallish flaws - something to do with the size of the MG cowl bulges, prop and spinner, I believe ... but the kit can be built pretty much into any variant of the G, with minimal fuss, that you like apparently? ... I'll probably end up with a couple if not 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artful69 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Well...stay tuned. The staff has some interesting plans for the new Revell kit... ... interesting plans??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_ Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Cool! got any pics? If you mean pics of the bulged wing root fairing, this link will take you to some photos of the 'restoration' of an ex Yugoslavian AF Bf109G-10. The text will describe the details... Good images here.. http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/bf109detailbg_1.htm Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikester Posted July 25, 2013 Members Share Posted July 25, 2013 Rog - I think I'd generally agree with your list. All things being equal, I'd certainly take the more accurate kit, but I'd also sacrifice a degree of dimensional accuracy for better engineering or superior detail or a better build experience. My biggest goat is the G-6 I think. The Trumpy kit gets routinely savaged for the undersized rudder, but let's be honest, the Hasegawa kit has its share of issues as well...poorly shaped spinner, opening of the supercharger intake, a tendency (in every one I've test-fitted) of the tail to exhibit a slight warp, basically detail-less gear doors...I believe I read somewhere that it's also short - and this was something corrected in the 109F. Can't wait to play with the new Revell, though! The problem is that the Trumpy also suffers from an incorrect spinner (too blunt just like Hasegawa) and IMO S/C intake is worse than the Hasegawa. It's not horrible by any means but when I add up all the little things I have to fix, the list on the Trumpy G-6 comes out considerably longer than the Hasegawa. I think Trumpeter gets beat up simply because a lot of the errors are just glaring and could have been avoided with a little research. Hasegawa got their spinner wrong because the restored aircraft they used for measurements did not have an original spinner. I can live with that, honest mistake, but some of the Trumpeter mistakes are real head scratchers. I'm pretty sure they don't even send out people to do measurements, just do it on CAD and hope it's relatively close. I'm looking forward to the Revell as wel even though at this point I'm a suffering from some (gasp) 109 burn-out! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 I'm looking forward to the Revell as wel even though at this point I'm a suffering from some (gasp) 109 burn-out! Mike... 109 burnout??? Never! You just finished a 110 so you should be fresh to continue your 109 crusade! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artful69 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 ... I think Trumpeter gets beat up simply because a lot of the errors are just glaring and could have been avoided with a little research ... I'm pretty sure they don't even send out people to do measurements, just do it on CAD and hope it's relatively close ... ... This is my theory too! ... either that, or they use the wrong reference materials sometimes ... research is the key ... frustrating when you see the decent quality of engineering and inclusions that go into their kits!! Take away any and all errors and they would be the "go-to" kit for just about everyone. The Me-262 series, Swordfish ... and the damnable American dive bomber I can't remember are good cases in point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now