IDF F15C Commando

[Dennis.E]

-You are very welcome Sir - I hope they help; if you need decals for the missiles at all sing out Gus.

[GusMac]

Slow progress at the moment but here is the current position.

 

 

Vallejo Metal Colors used for the bare metal areas and they went down nicely. I think (hope) with some weathering they should look fairly good.

 

Used Maketar masks for the first time for the insignia and they were great to work with although a little fiddly to get each perfectly aligned. I was a little heavy with the paint I think as there was a very slight 'lip' around the outer edge once the mask was removed. However a quick swipe with 6000 grit Micro Mesh very easily sorted that out.

 

 

 

Next step is a gloss coat and then a first attempt at salt fading. Plan is to have a few practice runs at this on the old Skyray I have as I'm a bit apprehensive about screwing up what I've done so far. After that it will be trying the new Uschi metal powders I've got to weather the bare metal areas and trying to work out how to realistically weather the turkey feathers which I think are carbon fibre?!?

 

As usual all comments, suggestions, etc welcome. Gus

[BevanBrooks]

Looks great , keep going man!

 

Cheers Bevan

[GusMac]

Thanks Bevan. Got the gloss coat on tonight, so now it's adventures with salt!

[Dennis.E]

Greeting Gus, I think the Turkey Feathers are a titanium alloy blend. Don't worry about the issue surrounding your use of the masks Gus, try using filters

later in the painting process mate. They are great for weathering and should cover any masking imperfections present.

Good luck with the salt Sir! I have a wee admission to make here Gus...following me saying one cannot use enamels with salt weathering, I went back and tried it again

in a more controlled, managed manner. It can be done! Albiet very carefully, and you must manage your ratios with respect to airbrush application, but I did it!

I am hoping now to apply my new discovery to my 24 scale BF 109G-2.

Great work on the Eagle so far Gus...I remember your Mig, which was simply beautiful Sir!

Looking foward to more.

Oh Gus, what is your reasoning for the applying of a gloss coat prior to salt weathering? It can be done without the clear coat layer.

[GusMac]

Hi Dennis, thanks for the info on the enamels. Good to know it's possible but having never airbrushed them I think I will stick with the acrylics.

 

I put the clear coat down as I wasn't sure about putting such a thinned layer on top of the existing paint. Just wasn't sure if the Mr Levelling thinner was 'hot' enough to do damage, although the quantity should be pretty small. Better safe than sorry was the thinking.

 

I used Matt McDougall's method of Tamiya X-22 then a mist of the Mr Levelling and I have to say it worked a treat. This build has been great for trying new techniques which have so far all worked great. (Goes and touches something wooden!!)

 

Cheers, Gus

[Dennis.E]

I must admit Gus when I wrote that to you I was a bit unsure myself, which is rare for me to do...

[GusMac]

No pics, just profanity!!

 

Had a clear afternoon so thought I'd have a good go at the salt fading. All seemed to go ok but when I washed the salt off, disaster! It seemed to have attacked the underlying clear coat and paint leaving a very rough surface and exposed primer in places. Seemed to be especially bad on the Gunze colours used for the insignia.

 

Spent the rest of the session swearing and trying to retrieve the situation. Sanded back the roughened surface and re-sprayed the damaged sections. Insignia repaired tonight, so hopefully tomorrow night I can unmask those and repeat the clear coat. Should then have an idea of where I am.

 

Trying new things is great when they work but a pain in the ass when they don't. Ah well, live and learn!

[Dennis.E]

Something doesn't add up here Gus...how long did you leave your cover coat over the salt on for? How much water pressure did you use when trying to remove the salt?

From my experience Gus this method is delicate, and demands care in places - still, at the risk of you clobbering me with a caber or sending William Wallace down to give us a good seeing to mate

I have found out most of what I know now through experimentation. Remember our undergraduate days Gus when writing papers every observation required validation...it's the same here.

We require validation - or in this case, the result of playing around, to learn from our experiments.

 

Let's try and help you out here Gus...what exactly did you do, from the start of your process, to apply the salt weathering technique?

[GusMac]

Hi Dennis, from the gist of your questions I can spot a couple of areas where I may have gone wrong but I'll go through it just to see if you agree.

 

So, sprayed upper surfaces with warm water with a little washing-up liquid to break the surface tension and then ground on the salt. Dried with a coolish hair-dryer for 5 minutes or so. Thinned the Tamiya enamel paint with Humbrol enamel thinners and sprayed lightly over the surface. Left to dry for approx 25 minutes then washed the worst of the salt off under the tap. Remainder was then removed with wet kitchen towel.

 

I think I probably didn't leave the sprayed layer long enough before I attempted to remove the salt and I was also too rough with the kitchen towel when doing that. What do you think? There may also be a possible incompatibility between the Tamiya enamel and the Humbrol thinner? 

 

I've pretty much managed to repair the damage without losing too much detail and a fair bit of the fading remains, so I'm happy to leave as it is. These were pretty new airframes at the time I'm aiming for (June 1982) and the Israeli's always looked after them so I think any fading would be pretty light.

 

Another lesson is possibly that my test run was on too small an area - wing of a 1/48 Skyray so not too big - and the issues just didn't get a chance to show up.

 

Anyway, after another light gloss coat to seal the repairs it'll be onto detail painting, decaling and weathering. 

[Dennis.E]

Good Evening Gus, For the larger areas of the air frame I use acrylic; enamel for smaller areas. I apply my water cut with detergent as you have done Gus - no worries there, and apply the salt.

Now you must allow the salt to dry thoroughly; I know this 'feels' wrong - almost counter-intuitive, but you must allow the salt to dry.

Now spray your paint/thinner mix on using a light pressure using the airbrush. Allow that to dry completely.

Now gently rinse the salt away under the tap Gus - no significant pressure, just let the water do it's thing. I use warm to hot water

as the physical impact of heat energy tends to act faster and more effectively in removing the salt.

DO NOT RUB AT THE SURFACE...WITH ANYTHING. What will happen if you do (go on..., ask me how I know this...)is you will remove your effect, and any material underneath, right back to the plastic.

This is when a military background comes in very handy, as you will have the sufficient coarse language in stock to turn the surrounding air a distinct shade of purple and get the wife running into the

kitchen thinking you have just cut your finger off! (Again Gus...ask me how I know this...)

What I would do now is allow everything to dry, then spray a coat of clear on, and start again. Only use enamels for small areas Gus, allow everything to dry the whole way through the process, and after gentle rinsing

under warm to hot water do not rub at anything. Congratulate yourself at an awesome finish then leave the model to dry before applying another clear coat to seal your work in.

 

If there is anything you need clarification on Gus please sing out - I have learned these lessons the hard way, but the technique does work, and work well. The best of luck Sir!

[GusMac]

Hi Dennis, thanks for all the details. Yes, basically my own impatience got the better of me!

 

Having touched things up and sealed with a clear coat again, I'm going to leave it as it is. There's enough of the effect still visible to give it the lightly faded look I was after.

 

I will be trying this again as I hate not getting something to work correctly, so this may influence the future build plan. Just got to work on the patience for next time.

[Dennis.E]

Onwards and upwards Sir!(And I understand your desire for successful resolution Gus - I think that's a disease all men of intelligence

carry with them...)

[Dennis.E]

Hey Gus!....You are being left behind Sir! How's it all going?

[GusMac]

Busy applying all the stencils, the downside of modern jets! Should get them finished tomorrow night. The kit decals are a little thick but settle down ok after a good dowsing of Micro Sol. The Cutting Edge decals are very nice and settle into the panel lines beautifully.

[Dennis.E]

With your Trumpy Flogger still fresh in the memory Gus I am really looking forward to seeing what you have achieved here Sir...

[GusMac]

Didn't realise it was quite so long since I updated this. Progress has been slow but steady what with Xmas, family commitments and exam marking.

 

So since the last update I've repaired the mess made by the salt fading attempt as best I could, then gloss coat and decals. The Cutting Edge ones were great, thin, easy to apply and settled down nice and snug. The kit ones were typical of older Tamiya, a bit thick but settled down eventually with a good douse in MicroSol.

 

 

 

 

Then it was onto panel line washes with the Ammo washes for grey jets which are excellent. Flat coat followed to seal everything in nicely. I used Tamiya XF-86 but it seems a little 'grainy' so I think I might try something else next time.

 

After that it was weathering up the metal areas using Uschi's metal powders. I'm not sure if the results come through in these pictures but I'm pretty happy with the outcome for a first attempt. Then it was adding the GT Resin nozzles and wheels, which again are easy to use and look excellent. Gary Hatherley has done a great job with these.

 

 

 

Next step now is adding all the ancillary parts and finishing the ladder. It's been undercoated in Aluminium and gloss coated, so just needs some liquid frisket and airbrush to get some chipped paint effects and then some weathering. 

 

Almost at the finish now! As usual all comments, suggestions, etc welcome.

[Dennis.E]

Good Afternoon Gus, You have really hit the nail on the proverbial head here! Tell me Gus, you mentioned Uschi weathering powders; where would I get these? Would Hannants have them?

This project is going to look great next to your Mig Gus.

[GusMac]

Hi Dennis, I don't think Hannants carry the Uschi stuff. I ordered mine direct from Alexander himself at www.uschivdr.com and it arrived pretty promptly from Germany.

 

The UK stockist is Scalemodelshop and I think BNAModelWorld in Oz, which is a bit closer to you, stock some items but I don't know if they have these. I can heartily recommend them though - easy to use, look very realistic and with the amount you get in the tub, they should last a good while.

[Dennis.E]

Many thanks for that Gus - I am looking forward to you completing this project!

[GusMac]

Evening All

Well, I'm calling this one done. Fairly happy with the outcome although some aspects could be improved. Certainly wouldn't repeat the fiasco with the salt-fading for instance!

Will post a full set of pictures in the Finished section. As usual, all comments, critiques, etc welcome.

Gus

 

 

[coolboxx]

Great build,  been watching this fantastic detail well done. And the jets look so realistic. 

[GusMac]

Thanks. A few things could have been done a bit better but I'm happy I'm moving up the learning curve.

[DocRob]

There is always something to improve, but what you show here is a very fine result. Nice paneling and the steel surface in front of the nozzles looks particulary great.
On the Fotos I hardly see any stencils and while I think they are there this is good news. On my 1/48 IAF Eagle I had tons of problems with silvering stencils, while the insignia and colored markings went on perfect. Stenciling modern jets is always boring and painful. The builders should manifest the handling in a manual .

Cheers Rob
  

[GusMac]

Thanks Rob. I went with the kit stencils which I don't think are complete. Certainly no panel numbers, although I've never seen any photos showing them on Israeli Eagles anyway. Well that's my excuse! Stencils are certainly the bug-bear of modern jets.

The Tamiya decals are a bit thick but they settled nicely after some Microsol and the matt coat.