Takom Panzerkampfwagen I 1/16 scale... with figure

[Kaireckstadt]

3 hours ago, GazzaS said:

Kai, thank you for your faith. 

There are some major differences between painting an armor model and painting a streamlined airframe.  Even the Albatros I just did...  I had to treat as an armored model instead of an aircraft.

 

That is very interesting Gary. Can you describe what are the main differences? 
I never build airbrushed an armor model so far. 

[Kaireckstadt]

4 minutes ago, GazzaS said:

It's dark!  Very dark!

I've painted the upper half with SMS Premium German Gray RAL 7021.  For your comparative pleasure, I've placed a bottle of Tamiya flat black, and a bottle of Tamiya Panzer Gray near the tank.

And taken pics from three separate angles to allow for lighting.

I've also laid the tracks across because I think the color I made for 'track brown' is actually a very nice match for Dunkelbraun #45.

 

I used about 1/4 of the bottle of SMS paint just to do everything above the return rollers.  It's a big model.

 

Happy modelling!

 

Great work Gary! 
Can you post a picture how the final result of Dunkelbraun over Dunkelgrau should look like in the end? 
 

[GazzaS]

13 minutes ago, Kaireckstadt said:

That is very interesting Gary. Can you describe what are the main differences? 
I never build airbrushed an armor model so far. 

Ok...  lets compare your Mirage and a Sturmgeschutze.  You can make broad, long strokes with your hand and sanding material without hitting anything in many areas on the Mirage.  Whereas  in a 1/35 scale StuG, the longest distance between details (excluding the barrel) is a mere 2cm....  in many places shorter.

 

So, it's not feasible to sand the StuG any more than absolutely necessary.  Now...  I wet sanded my FW 190.  So, water and the sanding debris ran following the direction of gravity and I wiped it off with a soft cloth.  But with a StuG...that debris is going to find a crevice to get into.  Moreover...it's easy to accidentally sand away a raised detail or paint on it.  So...  I can't really beat up on a painted tank like I can a painted aircraft.

 

My technique for aircraft is to use multiple tints of the surface color and then sand them to get a worn look.  But on tanks...and on the Albatros...I did everything with oil paints.

Hopefully this helps.

[GazzaS]

6 minutes ago, Kaireckstadt said:

Great work Gary! 
Can you post a picture how the final result of Dunkelbraun over Dunkelgrau should look like in the end? 
 

Oh...  you can count on it.  But that's a ways away yet as the sunlight is fading and my paint booth is outside.

[Kaireckstadt]

1 minute ago, GazzaS said:

Oh...  you can count on it.  But that's a ways away yet as the sunlight is fading and my paint booth is outside.

Misunderstanding Gary: Do you have a foto of the original tank with this camouflage? 

[Kaireckstadt]

4 minutes ago, GazzaS said:

Ok...  lets compare your Mirage and a Sturmgeschutze.  You can make broad, long strokes with your hand and sanding material without hitting anything in many areas.  Whereas  in a 1/35 scale StuG, the longest distance between details (excluding the barrel) is a mere 2cm....  in many places shorter.

 

So, it's not feasible to sand the StuG any more than absolutely necessary.  Now...  I wet sanded my FW 190.  So, water and the sanding debris ran following the direction of gravity and I wiped it off with a soft cloth.  But with a StuG...that debris is going to find a crevice to get into.  Moreover...it's easy to accidentally sand away a raised detail or paint on it.  So...  I can't really beat up on a painted tank like I can a painted aircraft.

 

My technique for aircraft is to use multiple tints of the surface color and then sand them to get a worn look.  But on tanks...and on the Albatros...I did everything with oil paints.

Hopefully this helps.

This helps for sure Gary! Again a great tutorial! 

[GazzaS]

6 minutes ago, Kaireckstadt said:

Misunderstanding Gary: Do you have a foto of the original tank with this camouflage? 

Oh...  sorry.  All the pics I have are black and white and don't show the difference between the two colors.  It's one of those things that is widely accepted as being true but not visible.

[Peterpools]

Gaz

Holy Cow, she is certainly one very BIG model. Looking so good and I never realized how difficult it is to sand and work on kits a of this size and complexity. You certainly have it under control

Keep 'em comin

Peter

[GazzaS]

Thank you Peter!

 

Here we go with the dunkelbraun test.  The main goal was to have a color that didn't show up well in color, and virtually disappeared in B&W.  Just like we see in historical photos.

 

Here is a monochrome photo of the PZ gray with my 'track brown', both colors united under a matte coat.

I was advised by a friend to go more brown, and here is the B&W result of that test.

Obviously too brown ins too easy to see in monochrome.

Just to give you an idea of the difference, here is a color photo of the two comparison tests together.

Now...  the camera in electric light doesn't pick up the brown as well as the naked eye.  I played with the ISO a bit, but it didn't make much difference.

And as you may have guessed, my Panzer commander has arrived:

I think he looks nicely detailed and will add scale to the kit.

 

Happy Modelling!

[GazzaS]

The figure is wired for sound, and the first dunkelbraun is on the turret.

He was supposed to have some binoculars...  but they aren't there.  I'm afraid he's gonna have to steal the canteen from the other dude.

[DocRob]

Nice detailing Gaz, bummer with the missing binoculars.

Cheers Rob

[Kaireckstadt]

Hard to see the difference between the 2 colors. Can only be imagined in the last foto of the 190 wings.

Nice detailing of the Panzerkommandant Gary! Really a mess that the binoculars are missing!

Waiting in the first row for the next update. 

[Peterpools]

Gaz

Not sure about the monochrome vs color. I've spent years enjoying photography and do shoot a lot of B&W work. I'm not sure exactly what you want to accomplish but the lighter the color up to a Mid tone the better the chances it will not show up well in a B&W photo. Flat, dull lighting helps a lot.

Nice work on your figure - the details are bringing it to life

Keep 'em comin

Peter

 

[GazzaS]

7 hours ago, Peterpools said:

Gaz

Not sure about the monochrome vs color. I've spent years enjoying photography and do shoot a lot of B&W work. I'm not sure exactly what you want to accomplish but the lighter the color up to a Mid tone the better the chances it will not show up well in a B&W photo. Flat, dull lighting helps a lot.

Nice work on your figure - the details are bringing it to life

Keep 'em comin

Peter

 

Thank you, Peter.  What I'm really trying to accomplish.  I understand that there are two sides of modelling.  There is the historical reproduction side...  and the artistic side.  The goal of one is to perfectly emulate a scheme or situation, regardless of other considerations.  Then the other wants to make something interesting to look at regardless of the facts presented in both print and photos.

 

In this situation, there are lots of guys who have chosen the 'art' side, using lighter colors with greater variations between the dark gray and dark brown as in this picture below.

Now...  each to his own.

My goal is to make an interesting model with a lot less obvious artistic license.  Will it work?  I won't know until I get there. 

I don't know much about photography.  I had to do a websearch just to figure out how to take a b&w photo with my wife's Canon Olympus.  The obvious tack for me to take was to take my own photos of the colors available and see how they compare in color and b&w.  If one color virtually disappears, as they seem to in most historical photos, I figure I must be close.

[Peterpools]

Gaz

Now I understand what you are trying to accomplish. It’s not that the color disappears but blends in shade with a complimentary shade in B&W. Not sure it will work without filters which allows the photographer to control the intensity of shades of gray. For example a red filter turns a blue sky sky to a very dark gray. Also, old B&W photos tend to fade, adding to the effect.

Completely agree about the art side of modeling vs the historical side - two completely different camps.

Keep ‘em comin

Peter

[GazzaS]

Anyway....    one step forwards, two steps back.  This is a no-update update.

1.  The figure.  He is posed behind a vertical hatch....

Very t-34 ish.

This is a problem.  Because all of the photos in my books and online show only two possible positions.

Either 3/4 open, like this:

 

Or all the way open, like this:

So, the hours I spent yesterday fiddle-farting around with the figure and hatch, looking for the perfect fit were wasted.

So now...  the figure will be buried deeper in the tank, with the hatch fully open.

2.  The decals are thick, unresponsive to decal softener, and every bit of clear decal film sticks out like a pimple on the tip of your nose.  

...so, I sanded them off, and made masks.  I also primed and painted white areas for the new insignias...  the paint is resting overnight.

Speaking of the figure...  I painted the red tones on his face today.  I'll do the yellow and blue tones tomorrow.

Anyway...  Like Freddy Fender sang:  "Wasted days and Wasted nights...."

 

Hasta la Vista, Babies!

 

[Kaireckstadt]

This seems to be a build with some more challenges Gary!

But even if you sometimes go one step forward and two steps back the most important thing is that you find solutions to the problems. And that is what you did (although fiddle farting).

Great work so far. And like Peter said:

keep em coming!

Cheers

Kai

[GazzaS]

Buenos tardes!

Face and detail painting...  been struggling most of the day on it.

 Tomorrow, I'll do the wood detail on shovel and ax handle...  then give it a clear coat to unify the paint surfaces on the tank.  And I'll keep working on the figure.  BTW...the flash makes the tank look lighter than it really is.  I took a punt on the padded leather on the hatch being brown instead of black...  that's my artistic license.

[Kaireckstadt]

Really like how the figure and the camo on the tank turned out Gary.

The Brown over Panzergrau looks really convincing! Great painting of the face of the Panzerkommandant! 

[DocRob]

Great detail painting with the comannders face. 

22 hours ago, GazzaS said:

This is a problem.  Because all of the photos in my books and online show only two possible positions.

I don't see, why the given position of the commander would not be suitable, only because there are no existing photos. Seeing the guys on the river picture, I can't imagine, sitting upright unsupported in a shaking tank would use up a lot of energy to maintain the body tension.

On 6/15/2021 at 11:14 PM, GazzaS said:

Thank you, Peter.  What I'm really trying to accomplish.  I understand that there are two sides of modelling.  There is the historical reproduction side...  and the artistic side.  The goal of one is to perfectly emulate a scheme or situation, regardless of other considerations.  Then the other wants to make something interesting to look at regardless of the facts presented in both print and photos.

Interesting thought, put in a short phrase, I haven't layed that out to myself that clear. Now, that you set me on the track, I have to admit, being more of an artsy interpreter, or to use other words, mildly freestylin' .
On the other hand, I think it's really difficult to judge from historic pics in general. I'm a photographer since 45 years and lots of things changed only in this period. I will figure some of the points, I think have influence.
- B&W pics taken with an analog camera are not comparable to digital B&W pics, at least not with basic settings. There is a completely different kind of contrast, with analoge film tending to 
   have dark areas darker.
- Photographers often used filters for B&W analoge film, like Peter said, to further enhance contrast, or reduce light exposure, ..., which often leads to changing color saturations and hues.
- You often have only hints about the circumstances the picture was taken, concerning light, exposure time, reflection,...
- Often, not enough is known, about the pictured materials, like how reflective was a coating to the bare eye.
- If you go further back in history, there were even different materials and processes to develop film material, with their individual footstep.
- You can not now, if older pictures were post processed, they often are.

I just named a few aspects here, which came to mind first, but there is a wide array of possibilities, which have an influence on the image of reality.

The basic story is, every picture is a lie, intended or not. Photography seems so objective, but in fact is not, because of technical aspects or artificial aspects.

Basically, that is, why I'm freestylin', I form a picture in my head, which is a combination of seen pictures and imagination or to use other words, an educated guess. 

Cheers Rob

[GazzaS]

1 hour ago, Kaireckstadt said:

Really like how the figure and the camo on the tank turned out Gary.

The Brown over Panzergrau looks really convincing! Great painting of the face of the Panzerkommandant! 

Thank you, Kai!  I'm quite happy with the face...   as Uncle Nightshift says:  "a great figure almost paints itself".

[GazzaS]

54 minutes ago, DocRob said:

Great detail painting with the comannders face. 

I don't see, why the given position of the commander would not be suitable, only because there are no existing photos. Seeing the guys on the river picture, I can't imagine, sitting upright unsupported in a shaking tank would use up a lot of energy to maintain the body tension.

Interesting thought, put in a short phrase, I haven't layed that out to myself that clear. Now, that you set me on the track, I have to admit, being more of an artsy interpreter, or to use other words, mildly freestylin' .
On the other hand, I think it's really difficult to judge from historic pics in general. I'm a photographer since 45 years and lots of things changed only in this period. I will figure some of the points, I think have influence.
- B&W pics taken with an analog camera are not comparable to digital B&W pics, at least not with basic settings. There is a completely different kind of contrast, with analoge film tending to 
   have dark areas darker.
- Photographers often used filters for B&W analoge film, like Peter said, to further enhance contrast, or reduce light exposure, ..., which often leads to changing color saturations and hues.
- You often have only hints about the circumstances the picture was taken, concerning light, exposure time, reflection,...
- Often, not enough is known, about the pictured materials, like how reflective was a coating to the bare eye.
- If you go further back in history, there were even different materials and processes to develop film material, with their individual footstep.
- You can not now, if older pictures were post processed, they often are.

I just named a few aspects here, which came to mind first, but there is a wide array of possibilities, which have an influence on the image of reality.

The basic story is, every picture is a lie, intended or not. Photography seems so objective, but in fact is not, because of technical aspects or artificial aspects.

Basically, that is, why I'm freestylin', I form a picture in my head, which is a combination of seen pictures and imagination or to use other words, an educated guess. 

Cheers Rob

Thank you, Rob!

A lot to think about...   maybe too much.   I can really only go with what evidence can be found.  My colors are not far from color chips presented online to represent the period.  The good thing is, that if I don't like the result, I can do the next model differently.

[Peterpools]

Rob

Excellent points and very well explained.

Keep ‘em comin

Peter

[Peterpools]

Gaz

Figure looks so very well done - a talent I surely do not have.

Keep ‘em comin

Peter

[GazzaS]

8 hours ago, Peterpools said:

Gaz

Figure looks so very well done - a talent I surely do not have.

Keep ‘em comin

Peter

Thank you!  I've always thought you a better painter than me, Peter.  It's still a process of learning, and painting a a 1/16 figure that is well formed is a lot easier than trying to paint a 1/32 or smaller face.  The well defined structures of the larger face basically tell you where to put the paint, and give you room to do so.  The smaller face is the opposite and much harder.