McLaren MP4/6 Ayrton Senna Fujimi 1/20

[Kirk]

If I find myself digging through my old photos in the coming weeks (unlikely, frankly) I'll post the picture. The other thing worth digging around for references on is the gearbox colour. I think McLaren used a magnesium alloy in this era and it has a unique finish rarely captured well in models. Hopefully the MFH book has this covered.   🤔🙂

[DocRob]

2 hours ago, Kirk said:

If I find myself digging through my old photos in the coming weeks (unlikely, frankly) I'll post the picture. The other thing worth digging around for references on is the gearbox colour. I think McLaren used a magnesium alloy in this era and it has a unique finish rarely captured well in models. Hopefully the MFH book has this covered.   🤔🙂

I may found pictures from the engine you mentioned, it seems to be on display in a Honda museum and may doesn´t show the status used in the actual racing cars.
The gearbox color seems to be a very dark metallic brown on the pictures in my reference book. Mine looks metallic black indeed, but I may pause or bin the MP4/6 project due to reasons, I will explain in the next post.
 

Cheers Rob

[DocRob]

After some bits of progress, the MP4/6 project stalls again. It seems to fight me on all cylinders, but maybe it´s just me. 
Over the last days, I prepared body parts, front and rear wings for painting and in the process, I test fitted the body over the engine and monocoque. There was a huge gap to the lower floor pan. In the progress, some parts from the engine and monocoque cracked loose and the described gap can only be closed with sheer force. It would be possible to glue the body in place, but that was not what I had in mind, with all the detailing and decaling of the innards of the car.

I hate to admit it, but the McLaren is getting on my nerves, which is rare with my projects. Normally, I pull through obstacles, but the constant struggle with this kit let my patience vanish.

My whole bench is cluttered with the detail sets and all the partly badly and small printed manual sheets, which should be merged during the project. The kit´s manual isn´t to good either.

But the neck breaker was the GAP, which you can see on the pics. I absolutely wanted a removable body and that´s not possible at all, so back on the shelf. 





Cheers Rob

[CANicoll]

Rob,  Several of us seem to have been hitting roadblocks on our builds lately which is a shame.  Your work is too good to be wasted on projects that are not well enough engineered from the manufacturer.

[Peterpools]

Rob

Right with Chris and better to move to another project then to keep banging your head against the wall  and not being happy with the results. 

Maybe it's time for one of your Tamiya 1/12 F1 kits for a change of pace and a breath of fresh air.

 

[Kirk]

Perhaps another option might be to separate the nose section and depict the body on stands (as it often was during setup)? That way, noone has to know if it fits or not.

[BlrwestSiR]

That's extremely disappointing with regards to the gap. I'd be one to leave the body off and showcase the work you've done on the engine and chassis. 

 

[DocRob]

On 7/8/2024 at 10:08 AM, CANicoll said:

Rob,  Several of us seem to have been hitting roadblocks on our builds lately which is a shame.  Your work is too good to be wasted on projects that are not well enough engineered from the manufacturer.

20 hours ago, Peterpools said:

Right with Chris and better to move to another project then to keep banging your head against the wall  and not being happy with the results. 

Maybe it's time for one of your Tamiya 1/12 F1 kits for a change of pace and a breath of fresh air

Thank you Chris and Peter, it´s not only the kits fault, that I´m now so aggravated with this project. Many aspects of the kit are finely reproduced, but with the GAP, I can´t see any errors, I made. Everything aligns well and is in the right position. F1 cars are always a bit tricky, when it comes to closing the body, as due to their nature, they have so many internal details, crammed in the tinies possible space.
For now, I have shelved the McLaren and maybe, I´m willing to finish it later with a compromise, something I´m not good at .

 

9 hours ago, Kirk said:

Perhaps another option might be to separate the nose section and depict the body on stands (as it often was during setup)? That way, noone has to know if it fits or not.

5 hours ago, BlrwestSiR said:

That's extremely disappointing with regards to the gap. I'd be one to leave the body off and showcase the work you've done on the engine and chassis.

I thought about these options as well, Kirk and Carl, but when I start a project, I have a relatively clear image in my mind, about how the subject should look in the end. With the McLaren, one of the main goals was to finish it with a detachable body, to show the interior.
I´m not good with making concessions to my initial plan. Normally I try to dig my way through the obstacles, but the McLaren stomped me on the wrong foot right from the start.

Cheers Rob

[Bomber_County]

Rob, hmmm send it to the SOD ……..leave to mature for year and then reapply mojo…….

[Kirk]

I think someone else suggested the Tamiya 1:12 MP4/6 as an antidote; the 1:20 MP4/13 is also a Tamiya masterpiece.

[DocRob]

20 hours ago, Bomber_County said:

Rob, hmmm send it to the SOD ……..leave to mature for year and then reapply mojo…….

I may do that Phil, it´s resting in the box for now and possibly, I will pull it out again, build it closed up and forget about it.

Cheers Rob

[DocRob]

8 hours ago, Kirk said:

I think someone else suggested the Tamiya 1:12 MP4/6 as an antidote; the 1:20 MP4/13 is also a Tamiya masterpiece.

For the price you have to pay for the 1/12 Tamiya McLaren, I would go all in and buy a Model Factory Hiro one, which I considered, albeit a MP4/5b.
The Tamiya kit with some extras comes close with it´s price tag.
I have several tempting 1/12 car kits and my favorites right now is the MFH Cobra Coupe. For 1/12 F1 kits, I only have the Tamiya Brabham BT44b at hand with some goodies, as well as the MFH Williams FW16.

Cheers Rob

[DocRob]

A while ago, the McLaren was shelved, because I couldn´t mount the body onto the floorpan, without having a gap of 1-2 mm between them. I wanted to keep the body removable and because, I had no idea how to tackle this without the gap, the MP4/6 got benched.
Then I had an idea. When I bought my MFH Brabham lately, I also ordered some aluminum rivets and when I saw these, I thought, I could drill tiny holes into the overlapping parts of body and floorpan and insert the rivets, which locks the parts in the correct position.
Done and almost invisible, when painted later.



I caught some fresh wind on that project and started the bodyworks with priming. Mr. Surfacer 1500 went on super smooth. I wanted to accomplish a bit more practice with paints like Zero or Number 5, before I continue with my Cobra Coupe. Good that I´ve done so, because...



... then disaster struck. I sprayed Zero Paints MP White on in a light but covering layer and all looked good for a minute or two. Then, grey shadows loomed through the paint, followed by the late forming of orange peel. Somehow the paint must have reacted with the plastic through the primer.



Normally, that would have been the point to bin the kit, but like I said, I´d like to get a better feel for these kind of colors and finishes, so I stripped and sanded the parts for some hours and will redo everything. I found a video abut how to apply Zero Paints best. It states, that you only mist a tiny bit of color onto the primer wait for ten to fifteen minutes for the next layer and so on. You should use 1,5 bar for that. I usually spray low pressure highly thinned for best results, but these colors seem to need instant drying through the air pressure, because they are so hot. Lets see, how the next try works out.

Cheers Rob

[FullArmor]

4 minutes ago, DocRob said:

A while ago, the McLaren was shelved, because I couldn´t mount the body onto the floorpan, without having a gap of 1-2 mm between them. I wanted to keep the body removable and because, I had no idea how to tackle this without the gap, the MP4/6 got benched.
Then I had an idea. When I bought my MFH Brabham lately, I also ordered some aluminum rivets and when I saw these, I thought, I could drill tiny holes into the overlapping parts of body and floorpan and insert the rivets, which locks the parts in the correct position.
Done and almost invisible, when painted later.



I caught some fresh wind on that project and started the bodyworks with priming. Mr. Surfacer 1500 went on super smooth. I wanted to accomplish a bit more practice with paints like Zero or Number 5, before I continue with my Cobra Coupe. Good that I´ve done so, because...



... then disaster struck. I sprayed Zero Paints MP White on in a light but covering layer and all looked good for a minute or two. Then, grey shadows loomed through the paint, followed by the late forming of orange peel. Somehow the paint must have reacted with the plastic through the primer.



Normally, that would have been the point to bin the kit, but like I said, I´d like to get a better feel for these kind of colors and finishes, so I stripped and sanded the parts for some hours and will redo everything. I found a video abut how to apply Zero Paints best. It states, that you only mist a tiny bit of color onto the primer wait for ten to fifteen minutes for the next layer and so on. You should use 1,5 bar for that. I usually spray low pressure highly thinned for best results, but these colors seem to need instant drying through the air pressure, because they are so hot. Lets see, how the next try works out.

Cheers Rob

orange peel😬 oh no. Hope you get this problem resolved.

[DocRob]

48 minutes ago, FullArmor said:

orange peel😬 oh no. Hope you get this problem resolved.

I hope so, FA. I stripped the color, which was nearly impossible and showed the quality of the priming, then sanded and some minutes ago, reprimed all the whit parts again. Tomorrow will be the time of truth, with very thin applications of Zero white.

Cheers Rob

[BlrwestSiR]

I feel your pain with the unwelcome results there Rob.  I have a Hasegawa Miura where Tamiya Lacquer has etched the plastic. It'll need to be sanded smooth before I can attempt any sort of respray. 

Nice solution to the fit issue that you had. 

One step forward, two steps back. 

[Landlubber Mike]

Hey Rob, a year or so ago I tried out Zero paints on a couple of Gunze Triumph bodies - inexpensive kits that I figured I'd cut my teeth on before tackling nicer car kits.  I had the same exact thing happen.  I sprayed a coat of Mr. Surfacer, had a good clean surface, then sprayed the Zero paints and got the same orange peel effect - which for me, I think was more a case of the Zero paints burning through the primer and actually crazing the plastic:

 

Like you, I stripped the paint and here you can see how the actual plastic was affected:

 

 

Took me a while to sand the bodies as smooth as I could get them, and then went ahead and reapplied Mr. Surfacer and sprayed much lighter coats of the Zero paints the second go around.  If I remember correctly, you really need to lay down a couple of almost mist coats, and then you can spray a little heavier.   That seemed to have worked.  I need to polish the clear and otherwise finish the builds, but things came out better the second time around.  I'm just glad I tried out Zero on an inexpensive kit and didn't dive right into something more expensive.

One other thing - I also used their two-part clear and their cleaner after.  That stuff probably runs even hotter!  I forget exactly what/why I did this, but essentially I left a small nozzle brush to soak in the cleaner with my airbrush nozzle, and the threads in the brush essentially melted and the goop settled in my nozzle.  Probably a bit of user error on my part, but I think I'm just going to stick with the Mr. Hobby/Tamiya etc. line of clears in the future.

[DocRob]

3 hours ago, BlrwestSiR said:

I feel your pain with the unwelcome results there Rob.  I have a Hasegawa Miura where Tamiya Lacquer has etched the plastic. It'll need to be sanded smooth before I can attempt any sort of respray. 

Nice solution to the fit issue that you had. 

 

2 hours ago, Landlubber Mike said:

Hey Rob, a year or so ago I tried out Zero paints on a couple of Gunze Triumph bodies - inexpensive kits that I figured I'd cut my teeth on before tackling nicer car kits.  I had the same exact thing happen.  I sprayed a coat of Mr. Surfacer, had a good clean surface, then sprayed the Zero paints and got the same orange peel effect - which for me, I think was more a case of the Zero paints burning through the primer and actually crazing the plastic:

Thank you Mike and Carl, for sharing your experiences with these type of colors. I never had this kind of issues with Tamiya lacquer though, Carl, that´s why I thought, application of Zero paint will be more or less the same. I use the Tamiya lacquers a lot and the only issue I had, was that they can affect masked clear parts, but most of the fogging can be rubbed away with a cotton swab.
Good (for me, not for you ) to hear, that you experienced similar issues and that misting on coat after coat is the way to go. I guess, that is why these colors don´t dry glossy.
Thank you for the information about the even hotter 2K clear. I was planning to use Zero´s 1K lacquer clear coat, of which I heard good things. 
I wear definitely always a respirator mask when working with this kind of stuff, luckily.

I´d like to see your Miura, Carl, I have one in my stash as well, accompanied with some etch and, what else, a jar of ZERO paint .

Cheers Rob

[DocRob]

Better now, phew, thanks for all your help and recommendations. 
This time, I applied a very faint layer, which only lightened the background grey of the underlying Mr, Surfacer 1500 grey primer. This was followed by three more misted layers with a drying time of at least 15 minutes between each. I raised the air pressure at about 2,0 bar and used the paint without leveling thinner. No orange peel and no attacked plastic, luckily.
After a pause of two hours, I added four more layers, the last being a bit more rich, with a half hour between applications. Now it looks good.
I also sprayed all parts in white, which will later painted fluorescent red, because on the body, these areas are also painted white down under and I didn´t want another hue in the red.



Cheers Rob

[DocRob]

Next will be the fluorescent red on the body and rear wing (not shown) parts. Again Zero paints will be used, but before, I need to mask off the white areas. There is a template included in the kit, which I took as a guide for my own masking strips. I adhered 16mm wide Tamiya Kabuki tape on top of the templates contour and cut it, following the lines and then applied the tape carefully onto the body, masked the front red section with 3mm wide Kabuki tape and sealed the rest of the body off. I double checked the border lines, pressing with a toothpick to hinder color bleeding.

 

On with the fluorescent red. Like with white, I started to mist on three coats, followed by a pause of about 15 minutes between each. The next three coats went on a bit heavier. I now need sunglasses , because of the intense color. With the last coats, I checked with the decals, if I had the right tone.
I removed the masks very carefully after only a few minutes, because I like to do that without the colors fully cured and hope for the last bit of leveling effect on the color borders. Luckily, there is no bleeding or overspray to be found.





Cheers Rob

[DocRob]

The first coat of gloss is on and will be the base for decaling. I used Zero paints lacquer clear for the first time and liked it, besides the horrible smell. I may sand and spray a second layer, but this I will decide after everything dried. The gloss looks actually better than on the picture.
I used the same process of painting and glossing on a spare external fuel tank from an airplane kit as a mule. There I can test everything first, before I work on the McLaren body. This will be especially welcome, when it comes to clear coating after decaling, always a risk with the hot stuff.



Cheers Rob

[BlrwestSiR]

Some great paintwork there Rob. The red is really bright in the pics so I can only imagine what it's like in-person.  

[DocRob]

38 minutes ago, BlrwestSiR said:

Some great paintwork there Rob. The red is really bright in the pics so I can only imagine what it's like in-person.  

Thank you Carl, the red burns in the eyes and I don´t know, if Zero didn´t do a bit too much, but the TB decals have the same hue. Pictures of the real thing vary from deep red to the fluorescent red, I used and lighting and metering has a lot to do with it. 
Meanwhile, I spongesanded the body with 8000 grit and gave it a second wet coat of clear, where I added about 20% of Mr. Leveling thinner to the Zero lacquer clear. It now is near perfect.

Cheers Rob

[DocRob]

I sanded the body with 8000 grit sanding sponges, cleaned it and gave it another coat of Zero lacquer clear, this time with about 20% leveling thinner in the mix.
After drying, I started to apply carbon fiber decals to the wings and air baffles. This is very time consuming and at first, I always think, the decals will never settle around the delicate shapes, but with patience, lots of strong decal solvent and applied heat from a hairdryer, they start to melt in place slowly. It took two days in total and still need a lot of touch up, but they are on.
Next was the branding. The TB Decals went on perfectly, with matching colors, not too thin, not too thick, what can I say, it took only two hours, what a relief after the delicate carbon fiber decals



Cheers Rob

[Landlubber Mike]

That's looking really sharp Rob!  Amazing how long the decal work took but they look perfect.  Nice job!