Dennis7423 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 All- Since I have completed my HK 1/32 B-17G, it's time to get cracking on another project. My brother and I were contracted two years ago to build some large scale kits for a flight museum that will open in Salt Lake City, Utah in a few years. I figure, why not get started on another kit! The plan for the museum display is to show, in large-scale, the bombing campaign in Europe using heavy bombers, their escorts, and their opposition. We have completed a B-17E so far, with a B-17F, B-17G, B-24D, B-24J, and Lancaster planned for the heavies. The hope is to make them more or less as accurate as possible, to help share the story of the bombing campaign against Germany. The museum has given us pretty free reign as far as what specific aircraft we model, as long as it was operational in the European campaign. I chose to get started with the HK Models 1/32 Lancaster. After having so much fun building their B-17G, I wanted to get cracking on another one of their excellent kits. So, in steps Lancaster Mk.I EE139, "Phantom of the Ruhr". Originally assigned to 100 Squadron on May 31st, 1943, she went on to fly 121 missions, including 15 trips to Berlin. I plan to model her during her early years, where she wore fuselage codes HW-R. She was later assigned to 550 Squadron, and bore fuselage codes BQ-B. a3425306814_10 by Dennis SAuter, on Flickr While I don't have any in-progress shots yet, I have started on a few small modifications to the kit (chopped up the cockpit floor). Here's what I can glean from photos so far, and I would love any input anyone can provide for this particular airframe: She was an early Mk.I, without side blisters to her canopy. Additionally, from photographs, it appears that she has aluminum interiors to her front turret, aluminum landing gear legs, and aluminum hubs to her wheels. All signs point to her being a very early Mk.I. PhantomofTheRuhrBefore100thOperation by Dennis SAuter, on Flickr img012 by Dennis SAuter, on Flickr 24336d1142014385-lanc-phantomoftheruhr_144 by Dennis SAuter, on Flickr 08741b6a17bc6f1e690930dc43d2f8c5 by Dennis SAuter, on Flickr Here's a few questions I have for the boffins: 1. What type of bomb sight would she have? I have a feeling she has an early SABS (Stabilized Automatic Bomb Sight) because she is such an early bird, but I am not sure, and its not entirely clear in the photos. 2. Would she have her fuselage windows painted over on the sides? (EDIT: It looks like in the last photo I posted, that she does indeed her her windows. I hadn't noticed that before). Hoping you all follow along on what will surely be a long journey once again. Thanks for tuning in! - Dennis S. Thornton, CO USA 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber_County Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 So looking forward to your new build Dennis........... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FME erk Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Dennis The phantom is one of my girls (100 Squadron based at RAF Grimsby) I will come back to you with some specs. Good luck with the build Ian 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Dennis, do you have a particular operational date that you are going to base your model on? Or a particular Op and or target?? If you give me a date of a particular sortie, I can give you the names of the crew if that interests you.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FME erk Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 When she was at Waltham . . . . she looked like this The flight engineer named the aircraft and painted the Ghoul on the nose. His skipper was W/O Ron Clark. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FME erk Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Operations flown from RAF Grimsby with 100 Squadron. 11/06/43 FZ-A EE139 Sgt. Clark Dusseldorf 12/06/43 FZ-A EE139 Sgt. Clark Bochum 14/06/43 FZ-A EE139 Sgt. Clark Oberhausen Icing (Returned Early) 16/06/43 FZ-A EE139 Sgt. Clark Cologne 08/07/43 HW-R EE139 F/Sgt. Clark Cologne 12/07/43 HW-R EE139 F/Sgt. Clark Turin Overshoot 24/07/43 HW-R EE139 F/Sgt. Clark Hamburg 25/07/43 HW-R EE139 F/Sgt. Clark Essen 27/07/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Hamburg 29/07/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Hamburg Landed at Lindholme 30/07/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Remscheid 02/08/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Hamburg 07/08/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Wright L Genoa 09/08/43 HW-R EE139 F/Sgt. Bagot Manheim 10/08/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Nuremburg 12/08/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Milan 14/08/43 HW-R EE139 F/Sgt. Bagot Milan 17/08/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Peenemunde 22/08/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Leverkusen 23/08/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Berlin 28/08/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Nuremburg Returned early Bad oil leak 30/08/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Monchen Gladbach 31/08/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Berlin 03/09/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Berlin 05/09/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Mannheim F/Sgt. Hardman 2nd dickie 06/09/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Munich 22/09/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Hannover Sgt. Cook 2nd dickie 23/09/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Mannheim 1 Aileron off & shot up 03/11/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Heyes Dusseldorf 10/11/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Peasgood Modane 18/11/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Brook Berlin 22/11/43 HW-R EE139 F/Lt. Randall Berlin Glycol leak port inner 23/11/43 HW-R EE139 P/O Dripps Berlin After the last raid listed she transferred to 550 Squadron and flew another 6 operations from RAF Grimsby as 'R2' before flying out to RAF North Killingholme in early January 1944 I'm sure this will be of interest to you Dennis "She was an early Mk.I, without side blisters to her canopy." She carried a cockpit blister in the starboard side as did most Lancasters. Of those raids to Italy they were not considered worthy of an actual bomb symbols hence the Ice cream cone, Operation No.5, No. 12 and 15 & 16. Note top two rows are rows of 15 symbols whereas the third and subsequent rows are 13 Ian 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis7423 Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 On 10/18/2019 at 2:27 PM, Jeff said: Dennis, do you have a particular operational date that you are going to base your model on? Or a particular Op and or target?? If you give me a date of a particular sortie, I can give you the names of the crew if that interests you.... Jeff- I don't have a particular mission date, but perhaps her first Berlin raid? Not sure how easy that would be to track down. Curious if you know which sortie that would have been for her, so I can put the appropriate amount of bombs on the side of the aircraft. I want to model her early in her career, rather than later. - Dennis S. Thornton, CO USA 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis7423 Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 On 10/20/2019 at 4:20 PM, FME erk said: Operations flown from RAF Grimsby with 100 Squadron. 11/06/43 FZ-A EE139 Sgt. Clark Dusseldorf 12/06/43 FZ-A EE139 Sgt. Clark Bochum 14/06/43 FZ-A EE139 Sgt. Clark Oberhausen Icing (Returned Early) 16/06/43 FZ-A EE139 Sgt. Clark Cologne 08/07/43 HW-R EE139 F/Sgt. Clark Cologne 12/07/43 HW-R EE139 F/Sgt. Clark Turin Overshoot 24/07/43 HW-R EE139 F/Sgt. Clark Hamburg 25/07/43 HW-R EE139 F/Sgt. Clark Essen 27/07/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Hamburg 29/07/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Hamburg Landed at Lindholme 30/07/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Remscheid 02/08/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Hamburg 07/08/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Wright L Genoa 09/08/43 HW-R EE139 F/Sgt. Bagot Manheim 10/08/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Nuremburg 12/08/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Milan 14/08/43 HW-R EE139 F/Sgt. Bagot Milan 17/08/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Peenemunde 22/08/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Leverkusen 23/08/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Berlin 28/08/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Nuremburg Returned early Bad oil leak 30/08/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Monchen Gladbach 31/08/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Berlin 03/09/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Berlin 05/09/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Mannheim F/Sgt. Hardman 2nd dickie 06/09/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Munich 22/09/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Hannover Sgt. Cook 2nd dickie 23/09/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Clark Mannheim 1 Aileron off & shot up 03/11/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Heyes Dusseldorf 10/11/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Peasgood Modane 18/11/43 HW-R EE139 W/O Brook Berlin 22/11/43 HW-R EE139 F/Lt. Randall Berlin Glycol leak port inner 23/11/43 HW-R EE139 P/O Dripps Berlin After the last raid listed she transferred to 550 Squadron and flew another 6 operations from RAF Grimsby as 'R2' before flying out to RAF North Killingholme in early January 1944 I'm sure this will be of interest to you Dennis "She was an early Mk.I, without side blisters to her canopy." She carried a cockpit blister in the starboard side as did most Lancasters. Of those raids to Italy they were not considered worthy of an actual bomb symbols hence the Ice cream cone, Operation No.5, No. 12 and 15 & 16. Note top two rows are rows of 15 symbols whereas the third and subsequent rows are 13 Ian Thank you Ian! This is excellent information, and very helpful! - Dennis S. Thornton, CO USA 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis7423 Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 A very, very small update today, and a request for some further information from the experts. I started by chopping out the cockpit floor where the pilot's pedestal was located. I will lower it, and work on some details underneath it that would be visible from the nose before placing it back into place. Cut, insert plastic card, superglue the bejeezes out of the joins, sand, and voila. Good enough for the folks at home. This is essentially step one towards correcting the cockpit area: 73071521_638880206518523_1822513833835495424_n by Dennis SAuter, on Flickr Step two will begin shortly, and that entails correcting the pilot's seat. It's positioned wrong on the pedestal, and the seat bottom is far too long. I have glued the two base pieces together so that I can begin the surgery process: 72917119_701178707031621_7925287475231064064_n by Dennis SAuter, on Flickr Other cockpit modifications will include correcting the angle of the instrument panel support, wiring, piping, and ribbing on the fuselage halves to hide the wing attachment points. I also purchased a really nice resin RAF parachute from True Details, which I will modify to more accurately represent the ones used by bomber crews. I'll then cast some copies, and put them in their appropriate homes inside the fuselage. 74417322_689998301485772_3716218318265253888_n by Dennis SAuter, on Flickr Work continues slowly on the fuselage, and much faster on the wings. I am in the process of getting the outer nacelles attached to the wings, and hope to have that completed next week. I'm also going to try (very carefully) to drill out the main canopy where the starboard blister will attach, so its actually hollow inside rather than just plastered to the outside of the canopy. Wish me luck. Folks here have pointed out that Phantom likely had the starboard blister, so I will add it to my build. I've been able to deduce from photographs of Phantom that she had natural metal internals for her nose turret. Would the entire nose turret have natural metal internals, or just some pieces? I haven't been able to find many reference photos of the turret internals, let alone photos showing early war ones that weren't painted jet black. Does anyone have any photos they would be willing to share? Additionally, would the upper and tail turret also have natural metal internals like the nose turret? Those I have absolutely no reference photos of, especially of Phantom. Thanks for tuning in folks! As always, comments and critiques are welcome. - Dennis S. Thornton, CO USA 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Dennis...............in conjunction with what Ian has posted above, my information has Ian's information correct as the first Berlin Op for EE139 as August 23/24 from 2041hrs to 0313hrs duration, pilot was W/O J R (Ron) Clark, and 'crew'............ the information I have regarding the 'crew' is Sgt. H. Bennett (FE), Sgt. J H Siddell (N), Sgt.D Wheeler ( BA), Sgt. L J Easby (WOP), Sgt E Gordon ( MU), Sgt. W Green (RG), and according to what I have , the crew watched a JU88 get shot down due to Flak.... The Lancaster came off the Avro assembly line as a MK III with Merlin28 engines and posted to 100 Sqdn at Waltham Lincolnshire May 31, 1943. She flew at least 29 sorties with 100 Sqdn. there was a slight change in the Bomb symbols after the 30th op and were in rows of 15. Sgt Harold Bennett the first Flight Engineer was the fellow who painted the Phantom of the Ruhr nose art. Ron Clark flew EE139 on 24 ops, nearly buying the farm on their 23 op over Mannheim as they were conned by search lights and were hit buy flak which damaged the starboard elevator and another shell going through the bomb bay and exiting out the top of the fuselage and apparently just missed the WoP Sgt. Easby, they dove still conned and being chased by a fighter of sorts..... Bennett helped Clark pull her out of the dive and they escaped the fighter to make it home, Bennett was awarded the DFM and Clark the DFC for that op. She flew with 100 Sqdn and 550 Sqdn for her war operations, her last op appears to be November 21 1944 1531 hrs - 2208 hrs on a trip to Aschaffenburg Miyards with Sqdn/Ldr W F Cudlow DSO DFC AFC piloting. After her last op she was sent to 1656 CU December 1, 1944, with 121 ops on her nose, and became Cat AC ( you may have to hunt that part down ) February19, 1945, she was sent to 58 MU. She was returned to 1656 CU, June 5, 1945, then she was off to 1660 CU December 17, 1945. She once again became Cat AC on January 12, 1946, and was finally made Cat E and was struck off charge February 19, 1946 I hope that is of some interest for you..... 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingco57 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Hi Dennis, Regarding the turret, for my Manchester I also will be doing an aluminium interior. IIRC the structure is all aluminium with some parts such as elevation rams in steel (if ever visible and will have to be scratchbuilt). There is a sort of instrument panel which will be black as will be the gunsight Mk III which fits over the guns, and the guns themselves will be gunmetal of course. Cheers Cees 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FME erk Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Some pics of the Phantom . . . Turret interior of the mid-upper appears not to the the lighter metal. 'Trigger' Simpson in his turret, note the windows are NOT painted over and the 'W' is the short version . . . I suspect the rear turret will be the same ie a dark metal interior. Some of the crew with the groundcrew. Note the starboard cockpit blister, note also the repair just by the window . . . Some of the crew by the starboard U/C leg showing its colour detail. Note also the tailwheel, it has the anti-shimmy groove . . . I hope these help Dennis, I would like to see one of 'my' girls looking the best she can. I intend to build one of her sisters in the near future best of luck PS She did not have the Gas circle on her nose when she had completed her 21st operation so if you are going for her first Berlin sortie you would be well advised to the markings on the nose. Ian 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis7423 Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 Ian, those are fantastic and incredibly helpful photos! Thank you so much! - Dennis S. Thornton, CO USA 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidd88 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Hi Dennis, regarding internal turret colour-schemes. Very early FN turrets were bare metal interiors, but before night-bombing became the norm, they were sometimes painted internally a green-grey, however this seems to be a hit and miss affair, as one can often find single aircraft with turrets in both schemes. I don't think the grey-green scheme lasted long in '41. Soon after night bombing commenced an all black scheme became the standard, however, turrets in both bare-metal and grey-green can occasionally be seen long after the schemes were officially superceded. Additionally it's often hard to distinguish the two from black and white pictures. My guess is that if turret output was being outstripped by demand, they simply omitted painting them before they left the factory, and such supplies of the grey-green paint as still existed when the official scheme went to all black were used until expended, with squadrons dealing with unpainted interiors if time permitted. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FME erk Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 That seems to make sense to me, thanks for sharing that Ian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis7423 Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 From the research I have been doing, it appears to be a natural metal color, rather than a British interior green shade: AvRo Lancaster B.Mk.1 R5666 44 Squadron KM-F front FN5 turret detail (WM TR188) by Dennis SAuter, on Flickr AvRo Lancaster B.Mk.1 June 1942 front FN5 turret detail (IWM TR20) by Dennis SAuter, on Flickr Looks like natural metal in the first photo compared to the green inside the bombardier's bubble, but the second photo seems to show a mix of natural metal and green, perhaps. Thoughts? - Dennis S. Thornton, CO USA 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FME erk Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Dennis I think it kinda proves that variation was common place so if you build it with the best references you can find then nobody can say its wrong . . . . 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidd88 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 I think the 2nd photo is probably shadow rather than a green, in this instance. The really interesting colour in that picture is that of the guns, I think. I've never seen that before. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 20 hours ago, FME erk said: Dennis I think it kinda proves that variation was common place so if you build it with the best references you can find then nobody can say its wrong . . . . EXACTLY ! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber_County Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 4 hours ago, Jeff said: EXACTLY ! Never a truer word said in jest.............try the phrase on TOS..... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 37 minutes ago, Bomber_County said: Never a truer word said in jest.............try the phrase on TOS..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis7423 Posted October 26, 2019 Author Share Posted October 26, 2019 I found a little bench time this morning, so I got cracking on Phantom a little bit more. I turned my attention to the nose turret, building off the research we've been discussing lately. Why not, as the mojo is currently situated there. The Lancaster bomber used a Frazer-Nash FN5 nose turret. The kit's turret is quite nice out of the box, but has some subtle shape issues. That, and I can't leave well enough alone. Additionally, with much of her innards not going to be the standard black we're used to, it's going to be a focal point of the model. I needed to kick it up a notch, even if only subtly. The easiest mod for the kit parts is drilling out the various lightening holes in the different structures. A simple, quick task immediately improves the look: received_407179460227530 by Dennis SAuter, on Flickr Another simple task is to separate the gun sight from the turret controls. These are molded as one piece in the kit, but the sight traversed up when the guns were elevated. For a kit with the turret guns in a flat, level position, you could get away with it. I elected to separate them: received_416354449055998 by Dennis SAuter, on Flickr I also drilled out the gun sight, which is solid. I'll put some Tamiya clear yellow in there when it's painting time to capture the amber color. A more obvious niggle with the kit are the upper support arms for the turret. On the kit, they are molded as straight triangles: received_666987883829619 by Dennis SAuter, on Flickr On the real thing, they are an intricately curved and rotated piece of metal: received_426209424753274 by Dennis SAuter, on Flickr So, out with the needle files, and away I went. Fortunately, the plastic is thick enough to reshape what's there to better capture that piece: received_2394091067507472 by Dennis SAuter, on Flickr Drill out the lightening holes, thin the plastic, remove the shoddy ammo belt (this will be replaced later), and fill the ejector pin marks, and voila. We're off to greener pastures: received_1419364988236883 by Dennis SAuter, on Flickr Now I've just got to complete the other side. Then, do the same for the upper turret. Piece of cake! It's the little things, right? - Dennis S. Thornton, CO USA 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 It's ALL in the details............. looking good Dennis.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber_County Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 I loving this build already.......... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now