Tamiya F-4E Phantom II: Sharks Mouth 388th TFW, Korat, Vietnam 1968-69: DONE!

[CANicoll]

Late, but as promised, got the unit markings and the face put on the ship.  Definitely not going down into the panel lines - the Zotz decals are certainly thick.  I maybe should have put a base of Solvaset down, but I used MicroSOL.  Will see how it goes.

Here is where the Solvaset removed some of the paint from the blue surround of the decal, and also some of the dark green camo.  Which had TWO clear coats that had been fully cured.  Who knew???

Next up is decaling the Sidewinders which are painted white now and have a coat of MRP Gloss Clear which has cured for 24 hours now.

[CANicoll]

I think I may have discovered one of the issues with the Zotz decals: They are old.  Despite my buying them in the past few years, I see the date on the SB label significantly predates my build: 8/11/2016!!!!

Making good progress on the Sidewinders.  However, there are still 40 decals to go on the missiles! Each front fin as decals/stencils on each side.  That is 32 decals, right there.  UGH.

Decals 03 and 04 are the stencils on the front fins...

[Peterpools]

Chris

Amazing progress and the decal/stencil work looks awesome.

Solvaset is a very strong setting/solvent and I rarely use it except when nothing else worked. 99% of the time I use the Micro system and numerous applications of Micro Sol will do the trick. If not, I carefully use Gunz Mr Setter and Mr Softer. The stronger setting solutions do have the potential of dissolving paint and I try not to let it sit outside the decal or puddle up if I can help it, as I've had the same issues a few times.

You hit the nail right on the head, as the decals are old and who knows how they were stored over the years.  

Yup, I used the same number of decals on my missiles for my Tomcat build and it takes time, but they do look brilliant when done. Just go slow and don't rush it. 

[BlrwestSiR]

You've got to love a shark mouth on an F-4. Just suits the plane perfectly.

I've used Zotz decals in the past and found them to be on the thicker side but tough as a result. It's interesting that you had the ink run on them. I've used Solvaset and even Tamiya X-20A thinner on them without the ink running. 

I just picked up the 1/48 sheet of the same decals you're using at the Nats. They've been hard to find as they're out of print and I wanted to do something other than the box scheme on my ZM build when I get to it. I may have to do some tests first before I apply my chosen scheme. 

Carl 

[CANicoll]

Peter, thanks for your comments - I did the MicroSOL thing over and over, nearly a dozen times, but could not get the name to settle down into the panel lines.  Solvaset, almost immediately got the decal to settle, but then not.  Maybe due to the thickness of the decal?

Carl, agreed on the shark mouth on the F-4. Just looks too cool to me, too so I will be waiting for your build.  I had zero problems with the Zotz nose checkers on my 1/32 P-51D so I'm thinking it must be the age of the decals and maybe they were not stored very well.  So I have some touch-up to get to...

Off to do some stencils on the Sidewinders

[Martinnfb]

Little Chris, I like it

Cheers

Martin

[CANicoll]

I just had to!!

[CANicoll]

This build has been interesting and continues to push my comfort zone and boundaries.  Trying new things and working out new skills.  From the resin and 3D armament, to over 200 stencils, plus the Sidewinders have 56 of their own stencils. The Quinta cockpit set with resin ejector seats.  Grafting on Resin intakes which required a lot of fitting and heart-stopping cutting, and the resin exhausts. A 1/32 jet with angled wingtips, heat stressed metal, tried clear resin canopies (oh well), white metal landing gear. Enormous camo masks which were for a different model F-4 (and started out with and F-4EJ not an F-4!).

The finish has been primarily MRP lacquer acrylics, augmented with some Vallejo Model Air especially for the primer, and of course both Alclad and Vallejo Metal paints, and finally some Tamiya X-22 Acrylic Clear coat.  I want to try the AK Interactive Paneliner washes, but they are enamel based and with the bad experience I just had with Solvaset and MRP clear - to be safe I wanted an acrylic clear coat.  So used the X-22 (which I have not used in YEARS) thinned about 65% with X-20A.  It sprayed on a bit bubbly but is drying to a nice clear glossy finish.

Sidewinders decals are complete.  Letting them try, will check to see if any MicroSOL is needed, then they will get a final gloss clear coat.  Some details to be painted on the rear fins - stainless steel tabs and then the PE engine exhaust added. There are three clear pieces to be added: a clear 'collar' just aft of the second yellow stripe, and then the camera lens in the nose.  Nose caps are provided, but such a shame to cover up all that detail!

The sidewinders are actually kind of bendy - not like the Sparrows which are thicker and a bit warped, but not a lot to do about it.

The Tamiya X-22 provides a nice smooth shiny base for the AK Interactive Paneliner.  Had to look up how to spray it, and found the thinning is critical.  I don't usually thin that much (2/3rds), but it worked out really well.  I have learned with primers and clear-coats that they may not go on all that smoothly, but to just let them be and they (usually) level out.  I did mask the metal tail pieces.

Will let this dry for at least a day so in the meantime will be working on the landing gear.

Here are the two paneliners I'm planning on using.  Has anyone used these before?  Any tips?  Definitely will be working on the paint mule first.

[DocRob]

Looking bueno Chris with the teeth applied. I´m sorry to read about your ongoing difficulties with the decals. I never tried or even own Sovaset. My strongest solution being Tamiya´s Mark Fit Strong. I use to try some heat of a hairdryer over the softened decal, which usually works.
I haven´t tried AK´s panel liner, but use Tamiya´s products on regular base, but not anymore as my to go panel wash, because removing residues can be a bit difficult and the needed chemicals a bit too aggressive. I often use oil colors mixed with matte thinner, easier to clean and runs down the details very good too.

Cheers Rob

[Peterpools]

Chris

Amazing progress and what a journey. Most impressive of all, no matter what the obstacle, you worked out a POA and moved forward and you're so close to now crossing the line. 🏆 

For clear gloss these days, I use both Tamiya X22, thinned as you did and Alclad Clear Glosses and their assortment of final finishes, being enamels - all pre-thinned, just like MRP paints - pour and shoot.  

Like Rob, I've never used the AK Paneliners, have read very good things about them and am looking forward to your opinion after using them. 

 

 

 

[CANicoll]

1 hour ago, DocRob said:

Looking bueno Chris with the teeth applied. I´m sorry to read about your ongoing difficulties with the decals. I never tried or even own Sovaset. My strongest solution being Tamiya´s Mark Fit Strong. I use to try some heat of a hairdryer over the softened decal, which usually works.
I haven´t tried AK´s panel liner, but use Tamiya´s products on regular base, but not anymore as my to go panel wash, because removing residues can be a bit difficult and the needed chemicals a bit too aggressive. I often use oil colors mixed with matte thinner, easier to clean and runs down the details very good too.

Cheers Rob

Thanks Rob - I even pulled out the hairdryer after your previous comment but no dice.  I'm going to live with it as it.  I think some time I'll get out my paint mule and try out the heat thing on that.  I've made various washes over the years, but I had a gift card to a vendor and could not think of anything I needed so thought I would try these.

1 hour ago, Peterpools said:

Chris

Amazing progress and what a journey. Most impressive of all, no matter what the obstacle, you worked out a POA and moved forward and you're so close to now crossing the line. 🏆 

For clear gloss these days, I use both Tamiya X22, thinned as you did and Alclad Clear Glosses and their assortment of final finishes, being enamels - all pre-thinned, just like MRP paints - pour and shoot.  

Like Rob, I've never used the AK Paneliners, have read very good things about them and am looking forward to your opinion after using them. 

 

 

 

Thank you, Peter!  I learn a lot from you and everyone here about how to address challenges that come up.  I do like the X22 and interestingly I did a test spray with the Alclad Clear last week.  It went down terribly - very pebbly - so I put it aside and forgot about it.  Picked it up the next day and wow!  Glossy and perfectly flat.

Will do a write-up about the AK Paneliners and the ResKit bits.  I have to say, their customer service is amazing.  I hope Ukraine is able to survive.

[CANicoll]

Spent almost four hours at the bench today, working primarily on the washes and a bit of detail painting on the Sidewinders.

The Wash.

The AK Interactive Paneliner worked pretty well.  Learned a few things:  best to clean out the cap and remix when you first open the bottle.  I found a LOT of sediment in the cap - when I tried to use the cap to dip my brush into. MUCH thicker than what was in the bottle.

Overall, the Paneliner ran very well on the deeper panel lines, to the tune of up to two inches or so best case.  Usually, the panel line run was only about 1/2 inch or so.  AK suggests using odorless turpentine/Turpenoid to remove the excess however I did not have a lot of success with that.  Instead pretty much all of the Paneliner came up. Used a dry paper towel instead.

Was able to do the tops of both wings, and most of the left side and top of the fuselage.  Still need to go back and redo a few places for consistency but making progress.

Will do the 'metal' rivets as well.

Question for you:  Is the wash too dark?  It would be a big job to remove at this point, but wanted to throw that out there to get your opinion.  Probably need a picture from further back than close up...

The pile of paper towels used to remove the excess Paneliner.  Honestly, I simply wipe off after the Paneliner has dried for about 4-5 minutes.

 

[DocRob]

It´s more a question of preference, Chris. I like the panel lines as they are now, but scale wise it might be a bit too much. I always believed that effects like this can´t be exactly rendered down to scale, because of many factors like lighting, condition of the aircraft and others. So it´s up to you to decide, but I would leave it as is.
The benefit of using oils for PLW´s is, I have many different shades to choose from. In case of your Phantom, I would have chosen a brownish tone, which has enough contrast for the panel lines and on the other hand unifies the camo colors.
I once used a very light grey panel liner on a German TA-152, because I wanted to simulate panel lines in harsh winter conditions, the only, the plane flew in. I found it fitting.

Cheers Rob 

[CANicoll]

Carl, interesting you said that - in the bottle it looks more brown than black, but on the plane and the paper towel it is definitely black.  I would have preferred a browner PLW and thought it might dry more brown. But it is ok.  Now on my 1/48 build will definitely go for more of brown PLW.  I had four to choose from, plus making my own...

[Peterpools]

Chris

The AK Paneliner works perfectly and a nice addition to the Tamiya PLW's I use. od course, my favorite is still the Flory washes as they are full proof. 

Thanks for the review and the excellent photographs.

[BlrwestSiR]

Nice work on the wash. It looks a bit dark in spots but these planes got dirty and weathered. I definitely don't think it looks overdone. 

Mig make a line of panel washes in different colours. I have a few of them and they do provide a more subtle effect. 

https://www.migjimenez.com/en/280-panel-line-washes

Or like Rob suggested, make your own using oil paints. Probably more cost effective in the long run. 

[CANicoll]

Thanks Peter.  I have a few of the Flory washes, too and do like them.  As you pointed out, they are very easy to use.

Carl, I actually have two of the MIG washes and really like them, too.

I thought for this build I'd try the AK Paneliners but am doing the brown shade on the underside and am a bit happier with that so far. Thinking a medium gray would be perfect (which ironically would be the MIG Neutral wash I have...)

I did kind of forget that I have so many different washes.  So am going to have to rearrange my shelves to put the washes all together.  Out of sight, out of mind!

Quick look at the underside so far:

Lines are started but not the rivets.

 

[Peterpools]

Chris

Underside panels lines are looking mighty good. I do like the contrast as it makes them pop.

 

[CANicoll]

Another gotcha has popped up.  Ugh.  I thought it would be a simple matter to separate the clear pieces for the sidewinder bodies from the pouring blocks and then fit them to the missiles.  No such luck. Those pieces are TINY. And very hard to hold.

I guess I cut them a bit long from the block (and like an idiot I cut them all off the same time) so they are too wide to fit into the groove on the missile.  This looks like it is almost there, but it took a very long time to get this close.

And this was after spending a good 15 minutes doing my best to sand the edges to narrow the piece to fit. Given there are 8 of these, I was not looking forward to two hours of trying to sand these to fit.

So got the bright idea to use Formula 560 and Micro Kristal Klear to made the clear parts.  I figured I would try both and see which worked best. Top is Micro Kristal Klear and the bottom was Formula 560.  The MKK was harder to use as it is pretty thick while the 560 was easy to apply right from the bottle.  

The downside is that the thinner 560 REALLY shrunk quite a bit.  While the MKK hardly shrunk at all.  The MKK is on the middle missile while the  560 are above and below.

Also put a drop of MKK on the nose for the lens.  The MKK is shrinking some, but not nearly as much as the 560.  Going to let this completely cure overnight then tomorrow will hit it again.  I can see where I mess up one of the Sidewinders... Will hide that best as I can!  

Updated:

The MKK worked pretty well on the bodies.  Added a bit more to the nose but I like the results.  MKK does flatten out a bit over time.

Working on the main gear flaps too.  Wanting to get this build across the line, so paying a bit less attention to weather the underside.

Also attached the nose gear door, which needed to be painted dark green and have the numbers added according to the Zotz decal sheet information.  The sharksmouth decal went down very well, but it is a bit thick.  But I like the look.  

Getting closer!!

 

[Peterpools]

Chris

Making awesome progress and those Sidewinders - never thought they would need so much work. 

I've been a huge fan of MKK for decades and found a fresh, unopened bottle is always the best bet for the more detailed work as it tends to be much thinner when fresh. Over time, the MKK in the bottle does have a nasty habit of getting a bit thick but it normally takes me a good year plus to reach that point. Glad the MKK made life a lot easier for you. 

Of course, I wonder why Reskit had to make those clear pieces separate parts, being so small and so fiddly.  For me, I would have preferred a solid Sidewinder body, with the only additional parts being the fins.   

 

[CANicoll]

My MKK is YEARS old and quite thick so I should thin it some.  Agreed on the clear Sidewinder bits.  Or at least be a lot clearer on where to cut to remove the pieces.  If I had more patience I would have shaved the pieces down - but at this point I don't want to spend a day at the bench doing that.  Getting closer!

[BlrwestSiR]

Nice job on the clear bits there Chris. 

One other solution for the future is trying a clear UV gel. They would set up a lot faster so you could build up the thickness needed. You can also get a nice domed shape to them. I've used it for wingtip lights and IP dial faces. 

 

[Peterpools]

Chris

I just 'ditch the bottle when the MKK becomes too thick to work well. I have using Tacky Glue from Michael's on and off now and it seems to work in between MKK and White Glue. 

 

[CANicoll]

I can see where I am getting to the final stages of assembly.  The entire bottom of the aircraft needs a lot of wash-work, but that will have to come later. 

Finally mounted all of the missiles and the ANQ.  The sidewinders were a bit tricky as the ResKit mounting points differ from those on the kit missiles, plus I wanted to make sure I mounted them in the proper place.  The missile rails are not as even as I would have liked, but close enough.  The warped body on some of the Sparrows made for having to be careful about placement so that noses of missiles were not pointing in wonky directions.

I checked the photographs I have of the F-4 with the ANQ and found it mounted both ways:  long nose in front, and short nose in front.  I guess it worked fine either way.

Canopy attachment is next after the Sparrows are firmly dry.  Attached the Sidewinders with CA so they are not going ANYWHERE...

Surprisingly, I did coat the topside with a semi-matte MRP clear, and it still looks very shiny to me even after 3 coats.  So be it!

ALMOST RFI...

 

 

[GusMac]

I had a similar issue with the Sidewinders on my Viggen build. The clear parts wide too wide to fit and too small to sand in any successful way. However, I just went path of least resistance and put the supplied covers on them! 😆