Duchess of Kingston - Beauty of the Seas - Wooden Sailing Ship 1/64

[Peterpools]

Rob

Following your progress and enjoying each update for both it's technical excellence and a learning experience as well. Neat, clean, precise and delicate work.  Your progress is amazing and I spend a lot of time, just staring at your photographs.

Completely agree about wood models have a huge advantage over plastic and resin kits in the solvent, paint, resin and glue departments. I'm very conscious of the harmful orders and fumes from what we use and for nearly now the past three years always wear a respirator and paint in a spray booth. When clean both my air guns and equipment after a painting session, I still my my respirator and work in the spray booth. I'm so very much more careful as how I use glues and hand paint (acrylics now) - just wish I had been doing this for all the years I have been modeling, but who knew.

Keep 'em comin

Peter

[DocRob]

Thank you Peter, this thread is the essence of lots of other build logs, I read and the input of kind members here, where I use the Dok build as the focal point to it report the way, I did it after sorting all the information for me and my situation. In other words, it's great to have all of you around 

At the moment I'm a bit stuck with the beginning of second planking. The pear wood is a bit harder to work with, than the soft and bendable lime wood. The other difficulty is, to hold the planks in place without the possibility to nail them down corresponding with the use of different type of glues, PVA or CA.
I tried different techniques yesterday, but haven't found the right way to go. I have two types of CA, one cures very fast, the other too slow. Wood glue is curing slowly too, which give you the benefit of easy adjusting, but to hold a plank down and up against the last one over a long curing period, is not easy, given the springy flex of the material.
To hold a plank in place, I used thumb tacks, pin nails, which were forced through plank rests, rubber bands, but none was completely satisfactory.

The wood needs to bend multi dimensional and I experimented with clamping soaked planks down on a glass plate and dry them with a hairdryer, to at least have the longitudinal bending ready.

All in all, I tried a lot of things and am a bit concerned about the outcome. But I know, like I described my iterative process in your Ferrari thread, I will find a way.

Next, I will protect all the keel, bulwark and stern fairings with kabuki tape, to protect them from glue residues and will try the fast drying CA step by step from the bow to the hull.

Cheers Rob

[Landlubber Mike]

Hey Rob,

Second planking is certainly trickier in some aspects, but I would say easier in others.  The nice thing about it is you have many many more points to secure the plank to the hull, whereas with the first planking, you only can secure it to the bulkheads or filler blocks if you used them.

What works for me is to use those red-capped pins I posted earlier in your log.  I place the plank against the plank above/below it, run the pin just under the plank all the way through the first planking to secure it tightly against the already fixed plank, and between the pin and the shoulder of the pin cap, the plank usually stays in place.  Sometimes it's a little tricky as you can't push them into bulkheads but usually you have many more pinning points.  Here is an example:

Where there is a big curve, I will usually pre-soak the plank, and sometimes will even put it in one of those plank bender devices (like the one pictured below) to pre-start the curve.  This method takes a while, but it gives me the best results.  For what it's worth, pear (at least the swiss pear I've used) bends nicely when soaked.  In the picture above, the pinned pear plank is 1mm thick.  The strakes above are the wale are 2mm thick pear - and you can see how much of a bend around the bow and at the stern was needed.  Certainly, you might need to use C- or bar clamps to help keep the plank in place while the glue is setting.  It's a good idea to put a scrap piece of wood, cloth, etc. between the clamp and the plank so that you don't mark up the wood.  Learned that lesson the hard way!

I tried CA glue on my first build, and hated it.  Frankly, it was the first time I used CA in a modeling situation so I didn't know what I was doing.  But, I found it really messy, and it either set too quickly due to moisture in the wood, or didn't set at all.  I'm a little more facile with CA now from plastic modeling, but I don't know if I would still use it.  I could see using CA to set a plank in the rabbet along the stem, and then bending it around and using PVA for the rest of the length of the plank.  PVA is just easier to clean up, and if you are looking for a natural wood finish, getting a CA spot could spoil the model as it will block the finish.  

Of course there are people that use CA for everything and have no problems.  These are the same people that can build a museum-quality wooden model using only an X-acto and sandpaper, when the rest of us mere mortals resort to power tools and other gadgets to hope to arrive at a lesser result 🤐

[DocRob]

5 hours ago, Landlubber Mike said:

Second planking is certainly trickier in some aspects, but I would say easier in others.  The nice thing about it is you have many many more points to secure the plank to the hull, whereas with the first planking, you only can secure it to the bulkheads or filler blocks if you used them.

What works for me is to use those red-capped pins I posted earlier in your log.  I place the plank against the plank above/below it, run the pin just under the plank all the way through the first planking to secure it tightly against the already fixed plank, and between the pin and the shoulder of the pin cap, the plank usually stays in place.  Sometimes it's a little tricky as you can't push them into bulkheads but usually you have many more pinning points.  Here is an example:

Thank you Mike for sharing your thoughts about second planking. Yesterday I tried a lot of different things to get a feel for the pear wood planking and had no success at all, which was a bit frustrating, but as it often turns out, it was necessary to find the way which works best for me. 

I tried pinning, but when using PVA, the planks in the bow area moved a bit because of their relatively strong bendings in two dimensions. Soaking them would have been the way to do, but I was eager to find a method without soaking, at least for parts of the planking.

Today, I tried my relatively fast curing CA, from Colle 21 today, and it worked relatively good. This glue can be applied relatively relaxed, but glues immediately, when pressed onto the first planking. Therefore, I glued each plank in three steps. There are some stains from the glue, but nothing, which cannot be removed with a bit of sanding.

I can understand your dislike of CA for wood, it just does not feel natural, but it works and I don't need any clamping, pinning, ...

At least, I managed to add seven planks today. The first three were full width planks, as I found, that this way, the following planks will lay better and for aesthetical reasons, but everywhere, where the radii of the hull are tighter, I beveled the planks, to have a equally small gap to the next plank.
The fourth plank was the first one which got tapered around the bow and until now, I managed to achieve a symmetrical plank picture on both sides.

6 hours ago, Landlubber Mike said:

Where there is a big curve, I will usually pre-soak the plank, and sometimes will even put it in one of those plank bender devices (like the one pictured below) to pre-start the curve.  This method takes a while, but it gives me the best results.  For what it's worth, pear (at least the swiss pear I've used) bends nicely when soaked.  In the picture above, the pinned pear plank is 1mm thick.  The strakes above are the wale are 2mm thick pear - and you can see how much of a bend around the bow and at the stern was needed.  Certainly, you might need to use C- or bar clamps to help keep the plank in place while the glue is setting.  It's a good idea to put a scrap piece of wood, cloth, etc. between the clamp and the plank so that you don't mark up the wood.  Learned that lesson the hard way!

I thought, I'm a tool nerd, but seeing your collection of plank bending devices, I'm envious . As I'm not sur, how my future as a wooden ship modeler will turn out, I'm a bit cautious adding all the tools now. 
I hope, I will never have two deal with 2mm thick planking and for the moment my bending pliers will have to do for mine.

Cheers Rob

[DocRob]

Today, after a delivery time of over a month, this 'wipe on poly' showed at my doorstep. It came from Poland and I'm very happy to have it received now.
You might say, c'mon wop, what's so special about it. Here in Europe, it seems to be very hard to find the stuff. I ordered it three times before, but it was never delivered to me. I was refunded, but never got in possession of the precious liquid.

Cheers Rob

[Landlubber Mike]

Rob, your planking looks fantastic!  Nice job!!  Looking really great!  The wood is beautiful.  Completely different color than the pear I have used.  The pear I use is "swiss pear" which I think gets its name and pink color from a steaming process.  Funny thing is I end up staining it to get it closer to the hue yours is.

I think you'll like the Wipe-On Poly.  It's really easy to apply and brings wood to life.  Glad you were able to finally get some!

If you ever do another wooden ship, I've found that working with shorter planks makes things easier, especially when you are having to taper planks.  The shorter length makes it much easier to lay a plank flat and avoid the tendency of bending a longer plank laterally against its width.  It is a little trickier working with smaller planks to make the ends butt against each other and you are naturally dealing with a lot more planks than single plank strakes, but overall, I like the shorter plank approach as I find myself prone to forcing wood in position instead of letting it lay naturally.

[DocRob]

16 hours ago, Landlubber Mike said:

Rob, your planking looks fantastic!  Nice job!!  Looking really great!  The wood is beautiful.  Completely different color than the pear I have used.  The pear I use is "swiss pear" which I think gets its name and pink color from a steaming process.  Funny thing is I end up staining it to get it closer to the hue yours is.

I think you'll like the Wipe-On Poly.  It's really easy to apply and brings wood to life.  Glad you were able to finally get some!

If you ever do another wooden ship, I've found that working with shorter planks makes things easier, especially when you are having to taper planks.  The shorter length makes it much easier to lay a plank flat and avoid the tendency of bending a longer plank laterally against its width.  It is a little trickier working with smaller planks to make the ends butt against each other and you are naturally dealing with a lot more planks than single plank strakes, but overall, I like the shorter plank approach as I find myself prone to forcing wood in position instead of letting it lay naturally.

Thank you Mike, I like the color of the supplied pear wood too and I will not stain it. I try the wipe-on-poly, to seal, along with shellac. I think the wood will look really rich with only a clear coat on and there will be less risk of color bleeding for the painted parts of the ship.
On the siede view pic, it looks like there are a lot of stains, which must be a result of the lighting or camera setting. Luckily to the real eye, it looks much better with only very few superficial marks.
I considered working with short plank pieces and prepared one for testing. I found, that a full length plank lays smoother to the plank above, somehow. Like you mentioned, I also feared that the plank ends will be to visible, where they meet.

Cheers Rob

[Peterpools]

On 4/1/2022 at 5:46 AM, DocRob said:

Thank you Peter, this thread is the essence of lots of other build logs, I read and the input of kind members here, where I use the Dok build as the focal point to it report the way, I did it after sorting all the information for me and my situation. In other words, it's great to have all of you around 

At the moment I'm a bit stuck with the beginning of second planking. The pear wood is a bit harder to work with, than the soft and bendable lime wood. The other difficulty is, to hold the planks in place without the possibility to nail them down corresponding with the use of different type of glues, PVA or CA.
I tried different techniques yesterday, but haven't found the right way to go. I have two types of CA, one cures very fast, the other too slow. Wood glue is curing slowly too, which give you the benefit of easy adjusting, but to hold a plank down and up against the last one over a long curing period, is not easy, given the springy flex of the material.
To hold a plank in place, I used thumb tacks, pin nails, which were forced through plank rests, rubber bands, but none was completely satisfactory.

The wood needs to bend multi dimensional and I experimented with clamping soaked planks down on a glass plate and dry them with a hairdryer, to at least have the longitudinal bending ready.

All in all, I tried a lot of things and am a bit concerned about the outcome. But I know, like I described my iterative process in your Ferrari thread, I will find a way.

Next, I will protect all the keel, bulwark and stern fairings with kabuki tape, to protect them from glue residues and will try the fast drying CA step by step from the bow to the hull.

Cheers Rob

Rob

Following your building techniques and how you have gone about experimenting and testing different techniques is a lesson we should all learn and follow. The second planking is surely testing your resolve but at this point, I have no doubts you will work out the best possible POA and put to be the issue.

Keep 'em comin

Peter

[Peterpools]

On 4/1/2022 at 7:41 AM, Landlubber Mike said:

Hey Rob,

Second planking is certainly trickier in some aspects, but I would say easier in others.  The nice thing about it is you have many many more points to secure the plank to the hull, whereas with the first planking, you only can secure it to the bulkheads or filler blocks if you used them.

What works for me is to use those red-capped pins I posted earlier in your log.  I place the plank against the plank above/below it, run the pin just under the plank all the way through the first planking to secure it tightly against the already fixed plank, and between the pin and the shoulder of the pin cap, the plank usually stays in place.  Sometimes it's a little tricky as you can't push them into bulkheads but usually you have many more pinning points.  Here is an example:

Where there is a big curve, I will usually pre-soak the plank, and sometimes will even put it in one of those plank bender devices (like the one pictured below) to pre-start the curve.  This method takes a while, but it gives me the best results.  For what it's worth, pear (at least the swiss pear I've used) bends nicely when soaked.  In the picture above, the pinned pear plank is 1mm thick.  The strakes above are the wale are 2mm thick pear - and you can see how much of a bend around the bow and at the stern was needed.  Certainly, you might need to use C- or bar clamps to help keep the plank in place while the glue is setting.  It's a good idea to put a scrap piece of wood, cloth, etc. between the clamp and the plank so that you don't mark up the wood.  Learned that lesson the hard way!

I tried CA glue on my first build, and hated it.  Frankly, it was the first time I used CA in a modeling situation so I didn't know what I was doing.  But, I found it really messy, and it either set too quickly due to moisture in the wood, or didn't set at all.  I'm a little more facile with CA now from plastic modeling, but I don't know if I would still use it.  I could see using CA to set a plank in the rabbet along the stem, and then bending it around and using PVA for the rest of the length of the plank.  PVA is just easier to clean up, and if you are looking for a natural wood finish, getting a CA spot could spoil the model as it will block the finish.  

Of course there are people that use CA for everything and have no problems.  These are the same people that can build a museum-quality wooden model using only an X-acto and sandpaper, when the rest of us mere mortals resort to power tools and other gadgets to hope to arrive at a lesser result 🤐

Mike

Some mighty nice advice and a workable technique for sure.

Keep 'em comin

Peter

 

[Peterpools]

Rob

Glad you worked out a method of installing she delivered the Minwax Wipe on Poly just in the nick of time. Never thought Minwax Products would be difficult to find as here in the states they are a staple in every hardware store and of course in the big Home Centers as well.

Keep 'em comin

Peter

[DocRob]

18 hours ago, Peterpools said:

Following your building techniques and how you have gone about experimenting and testing different techniques is a lesson we should all learn and follow. The second planking is surely testing your resolve but at this point, I have no doubts you will work out the best possible POA and put to be the issue.

Thanks Peter, the good thing about being a novice is, you can learn a lot . Between building steps, I read a lot and try to form a picture about what lays ahead of me based on the experiences of Mike, other WIP's and my own sparse experiences with wooden ships and a bit less sparse experience in wood working in general.

Steps like second planking make my head swirl in advance, trying to abstractly develop the right approach and trying to adopt it to my situation. This is a tedious and often frustrating phase, as there are a lot of unsuccessful attempts involved. Knowing myself, that doesn't take me down, as I know the fog will clear and I normally find a makeable solution. In a way, I enjoy this process, having to suffer a bit, to achieve some satisfaction.

Cheers Rob

[DocRob]

18 hours ago, Peterpools said:

Glad you worked out a method of installing she delivered the Minwax Wipe on Poly just in the nick of time. Never thought Minwax Products would be difficult to find as here in the states they are a staple in every hardware store and of course in the big Home Centers as well.

Over time there arose a lot of obstacles, purchasing modelling goods on my tiny island, specially where hot liquids come into play. All modelling goods are brought here by tiny passenger planes with small freight compartments. The rules about what is allowed to deliver have changed dramatically. No rattle cans, no hot colors, like Tamiya LP containing more than 30 ml per unit, ... Some online shops generally do not deliver 'hot' colors here, creating their own rules. And there are products like WOP, which seems not to be sold in Europe, except for Poland. 

There are clear benefits, living on an island, purchasing goods, clearly is not one of them .

Cheers Rob

[DocRob]

Today I managed eight planks, not too shabby. With each plank it's checking the woods surface, angle cut the bow end, taper the bow section with a ruler and a blade to fit bevel the bow section with a sanding stick, dry fit the plank into place, mark the to bevel areas in the mid and stern section, bevel here, cut to length and after a second dry fit, glue it on with Colle 21 CA. I started with three gluing areas for each plank, bow, mid ship, stern and went to four now, as the bow geometry becomes more delicate.

I really like the CA method with the fast bonding glue. It makes positioning of the planks easy, but on the downside, you have to be fully concentrated, there is no margin for error and it's a bit messy if you are not absolutely careful. 

The hull planking is still symmetrical enough and will look good after sanding. When ready, I will use my new small accumulator driven sander and, like of course read in another WIP, will collect the dust, to mix it with diluted PVA as filler where needed.

In all, I'm satisfied with the result and the problematical stern area seems to work out good too, after a little sanding and inserting of tiny filling blocks for support.

Cheers Rob

[GazzaS]

Rob, I can only echo the others...   The planking is fantastic!

[Landlubber Mike]

Planking around the lower corners of the stern counter can be tricky - you executed it perfectly!  Well done!

[Bomber_County]

Rob, you nailed this, amazing planking congrats..

[DocRob]

On 4/4/2022 at 5:58 AM, GazzaS said:

Rob, I can only echo the others...   The planking is fantastic!

Thanks Gary, planking can be tedious and working with CA is demanding to my hands, as these are the clamps, nails, rubber bands. My fingertips are sore, but I progress poco a poco.

20 hours ago, Landlubber Mike said:

Planking around the lower corners of the stern counter can be tricky - you executed it perfectly!  Well done!

Thank you Mike, yesterday, I continued and formed the next rounding on the stern. Definitely not the easiest part to plank. While working with CA for attaching the planks, I have to follow some eternal physical rules, like letting the gravity work for you. Yesterday I made the mistake to set the firs plank with CA onto the hull with the keel showing upwards, not a good idea, as the CA easily stains the above planking. Lessons learned, you can't beat physics. 

10 hours ago, Bomber_County said:

Rob, you nailed this, amazing planking congrats..

Thank you Phil, but I have to say, no nails involved with second planking .

Cheers Rob

[DocRob]

Phew, one side is almost ready with second planking. The geometry wasn't so simple and I had to use some filler planks, to let the full length planks 'flow' better. There are some places, where I will insert some tiny parts of planking material, to have a smooth base. I don't know why the result of my work looks always more stained than to the real eye, maybe my camera likes landscapes better, or I have to incorporate a softener, a la David Hamilton, tempting curves in the fog .

Anyway, I'm sure, after a proper sanding all will look fine and above the waterline, there are no filler planks used.

Cheers Rob

 

[Bomber_County]

39 minutes ago, DocRob said:

Phew, one side is almost ready with second planking. The geometry wasn't so simple and I had to use some filler planks, to let the full length planks 'flow' better. There are some places, where I will insert some tiny 

 

Stunning Rob, bet you feel tired and emotional after that…….

[GazzaS]

It do look nice, I reckon.

[DocRob]

23 hours ago, Bomber_County said:

Stunning Rob, bet you feel tired and emotional after that…….

Thanks Phil, I helped myself to a cocktail to relax. A combo of rye whiskey, Aquavit, a bit of rich sugar and some drops of Angostura.
It's funny somehow, every step before and after planking is shown in the manual to greatest detail, but the planking is just some pics and description. That's no critique, as it's enough to get it done, but shows exactly that, it has to be done, somehow. There are many possibilities and techniques to realize the planking, but in the end, you have to go through it.
Today, I managed only some planks on the other side, due to my sore fingers and delicate area around bow an stern, where the preparation, mental and physical is a challenge.

Cheers Rob

13 hours ago, GazzaS said:

It do look nice, I reckon.

Muchas gracias señhor.

Cheers Rob 

 

[DocRob]

Only six more planks to lay, I hope, I will finish the hull planking tomorrow, it's about time to do something else . I inserted some plank rests into the bigger gaps on the finished side and gave it a preliminary sanding, to check the plank picture and to collect some dust for my self made filler.

Cheers Rob

[DocRob]

After laying the last planks, there was some jigsaw puzzle to solve for the last remaining pieces. My disc sander proved to be very handy, for producing the long curved shapes out of plank residues. Luckily enough planking material was supplied with only two full length planks spare. I broke one and separated three, because they were planed to thin (There are many plank cuts left though).

And finally, it's done!!!!!

Cheers Rob

[Martinnfb]

There is some this special about wooden ships, splendid work Rob.

[GazzaS]

Looks good, Rob.