ZM Bf 109 - Help

[Peterpools]

This is my first Bf 109 build and am finding ZM's color painting guide for Hartmann's aircraft somewhat confusing and not that correct as I keep researching the colors. The color callouts for the undersides are RLM 65 (research showed it should be RLM 76.) ZM intermixes the actual name for the blues as either Light Blue RLM 76 or Pale Blue RLM 65. Then moving on to the fuselage sides, it seems the background color is the lower wing color which should be RLM 76 and not RLM 65. Side mottling is going to be RLM74 & RLM 75, which are also the upper wing cammo colors. From what I've read, the classic Luftwaffe colors are RLM 74, 75 76 and I'm going to go with i - way too confusing.

As a side note, in research all the colors, I couldn't believe how many different colors/hues of RLM 02 there are - it's almost as many as Olive Drab🧐

I'm getting ready to prime and do the final checking. I should have sorted this out much sooner but just assumed ZM's painting instructions would be as thorough and clear, as they looked good. Lots of stencil and decal placement information but I'm lost with the actual colors. 

I posted my question before finishing my research this morning and have gone back and edited my original questions. I'm pretty sure what really led me down the wrong path was the printed color guide in the instructions have too much green tint to them and throws off the actual colors especially for a newbie like me to Luftwaffe aircraft.   

Thank You

 

 

[JohnB]

RLM 76 is correct Peter. Or it could possibly be RLM 84.......

[Peterpools]

Thanks John

I've been doing a lot of research all morning and I think the problem is ZM's instructions have too much green mixed in the printed colors.

All my research shows the actual color scheme colors should be: 

RLM 76 Light Blue

RLM 74 Dark Gray

RLM 75 Gray

I'm ditching the color callouts in the instructions which now seem to be wrong. And finally, as luck would have it, I have all the colors in my MRP Paint Stash!

 

 

[JohnB]

LOL That's a good thing then Peter.

[Peterpools]

John

Just seems getting the colors correct is almost the hardest part of a build these days. Just think back to the old days; we had Practra, Humbrol, Testors and then Model Master. Of course, with no internet for research, you believed what was in the instructions or if you were lucky, you actually had a book to reference. Now it's endless with everyone having the 'correct' answers and none match each other.

Peter

[ScottsGT]

Paint it to look like an old black and white photograph?

[Clunkmeister]

Aaaah the never ending debates on correct RLM shades.  It drove Jerry Crandall half insane, and well, let’s not talk about Martin..  🤣🤣

[Martinnfb]

You are correct Peter , at that time it was standard 74,5,6, with a blurry transition of 02, which is not the 02 from the bottle. Just a mist, which resulted in variety of hues. Yellow marking of Eastern front and black tulip to make Goebbels happy.  

Here is his Werk Nr. 166221    

 

[Martinnfb]

49 minutes ago, Clunkmeister said:

Aaaah the never ending debates on correct RLM shades.  It drove Jerry Crandall half insane, and well, let’s not talk about Martin..  🤣🤣

I miss Jerry dearly, he was such a kind soul always ready to share and help. I was supposed to visit him at his ranch and then the Covid drama kicked in. I really wish he was still around.

 

One more from the same film.

[Martinnfb]

two

[Peterpools]

Thanks guys for the help. This is so far my first 'go' at WWII Luftwaffe colors and first 109. In fact my first official Luftwaffe build. And I thought the AVG colors were confusing 🙃

 

[Bill_S]

Someone told me not too long ago that they're supposed to look like trout...

[Clunkmeister]

9 hours ago, Peterpools said:

Thanks guys for the help. This is so far my first 'go' at WWII Luftwaffe colors and first 109. In fact my first official Luftwaffe build. And I thought the AVG colors were confusing 🙃

 

And now you know why people obsess over RLM shades.  You literally could have 10 different guys build 10 different models of the same exact plane, and get 10 different results, all of which have documentation proving they’re right.

It drove Jerry Crandall crazy. It drives Martin, Floyd Werner, Gazz, and others crazy as well.  
me, if it looks close, it’s good enough. I just pick a paint manufacturer and stay with it.

RLM02 changed shades throughout the war.  Nobody, and yet everybody, is right.  

[Clunkmeister]

The only thing I can say, Peter, is that I use Gunze RLM66 as my go to black shade. Not as stark as pure black

[Peterpools]

Bill, Thanks Not a bad idea

 

[Peterpools]

Thanks Ernie

Makes perfect sense - and for a first timer with RLM colors surely explains a lot, starting with why every paint company has a different shade/hue/tone of RLM02 for example. In fact, one that I've looked at has two very different colors for it just to add to the RLM mystery. I'm assuming as the war reached the later years, supplies and availability were stretched to their limits. I read that DB engines were leaving the factory unpainted as paint was almost unavailable.  

Wish I knew all this before moving forward with the cammo work. As of yesterday, the RLM 76 went on and it was a bear to do (no more black primer in my tool chest for major priming) and now it's time to start working on the cammo.

Of course, I've followed builds where the wings seemed hard edge and others where the edges are soft. I'm still on the fence, leaning towards a hard edge but no final decision yet - with tomorrow being decision day.