Peterpools Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 Chris Where in the world did they come up with those panel lines? I'm in for using Mr Surfacer, apply, sand and apply more. It's going to take a number of layers and it will do the job. Mr Surfacer can be removed with Self Leveling Thinners and a Q Tip, as it doesn't attack plastic or resin. Of course, always rub across the panel line so you won't remove Mr Surfacer from the offending panel lines or whatever they are. Nothing ever seems to be easy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANicoll Posted January 29, 2023 Author Share Posted January 29, 2023 4 hours ago, Peterpools said: Chris Where in the world did they come up with those panel lines? I'm in for using Mr Surfacer, apply, sand and apply more. It's going to take a number of layers and it will do the job. Mr Surfacer can be removed with Self Leveling Thinners and a Q Tip, as it doesn't attack plastic or resin. Of course, always rub across the panel line so you won't remove Mr Surfacer from the offending panel lines or whatever they are. Nothing ever seems to be easy. How about that!! Never occurred to me those lines would be out of whack, until I got the tail on. The black primer REALLY shows up the difference. Thanks for the hints on Mr Surfacer! Chris 5 hours ago, BlrwestSiR said: Chris, I'm not sure the sprue goo would work well as the tail is resin and it may not bond well to it. I'd stick with either Mr Surfacer or possibly Mr Dissolved Putty. The latter shrinks a bit more though and is a bit softer when dry. 5 hours ago, HubertB said: These panel lines on the Belcher tail are positively ugly. Not sure they even make sense from a structural point of view. And I’m with Carl: sprue goo won’t hold to resin. Hubert Carl and Hubert - Oh yeah!!! You know, I probably would have tried it, then after a while I hope to have had an 'Ah ha!" moment, but you both saved me from that. On to the Mr. Surfacer! Chris 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocRob Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 I'm with Hubert, these panel lines are really ugly and don't fit the look of the rest, but worse, they look totally sci fi to me. There is no sense in the layout, technically. Pics may prove me wrong and I'm not an expert, but they cry for filling and rescribing / riveting. Cheers Rob 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANicoll Posted January 29, 2023 Author Share Posted January 29, 2023 5 hours ago, DocRob said: I'm with Hubert, these panel lines are really ugly and don't fit the look of the rest, but worse, they look totally sci fi to me. There is no sense in the layout, technically. Pics may prove me wrong and I'm not an expert, but they cry for filling and rescribing / riveting. Cheers Rob Completely agree... Just had coffee and breakfast. Time to break out the Mr. Surfacer! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterpools Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 Chris Fingers crossed ... Mr Surfacer always does the trick 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANicoll Posted January 29, 2023 Author Share Posted January 29, 2023 Mr Surfacer... to the RESCUE? Guys, thank you for the help! Here are three coats of Mr Surfacer 500 on the tail. Used a pointed brush, but still was not able to get it just on the panel lines (and did not want to use 10' of tape masking the individual lines.) In the end, decided to not worry about the panel lines and just go for a smooth tail. Going to let this dry for most of today and either this afternoon or evening will get out the sanding sticks. And the respirator. And the vacuum. Chris 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterpools Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 Chris I use mt Surfacer all the time. Leave the sanding sticks on the work bench. Pull out a jar of Mr Color Self Leveling Thinners (No other thinner works without meshing up the plastic or resin) and with a damp Q Tip, wipe across the panel lines. It will dissolve and remove the Mr Surfacer. Then apply another coat. Wait a few hours and repeat. Each time, you will be filling in and leveling. There is no need to sand Mr Surfacer. Llast coat, let dry a good 24 hrs and then the Q Tip act again - works perfectly and never removes any detail. Maybe wear a mask for the smell and fumes but no dust or sanding marks at all. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANicoll Posted January 29, 2023 Author Share Posted January 29, 2023 2 hours ago, Peterpools said: Chris I use mt Surfacer all the time. Leave the sanding sticks on the work bench. Pull out a jar of Mr Color Self Leveling Thinners (No other thinner works without meshing up the plastic or resin) and with a damp Q Tip, wipe across the panel lines. It will dissolve and remove the Mr Surfacer. Then apply another coat. Wait a few hours and repeat. Each time, you will be filling in and leveling. There is no need to sand Mr Surfacer. Llast coat, let dry a good 24 hrs and then the Q Tip act again - works perfectly and never removes any detail. Maybe wear a mask for the smell and fumes but no dust or sanding marks at all. Obviously I didn't remember these directions when I started on the Mr Surfacer! Will see how this turns out... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landlubber Mike Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 Chris, that's really interesting about the tail. The black primer really shows off the difference in panel lines. I just looked at other builds that used the Belcher tail, and I didn't see others have that issue. I wonder if they just scribed the panel lines forward of the tail to match the tail? I did reach out to Mike Belcher to ask about his hollowed tail. He said that when he first did the tail, the PBY-5A wasn't out so tail sitting wasn't an issue. When the amphibious version came out, he realized that the tail weight would be an issue and came out with the hollowed tail. I'll probably buy another tail just in case I decide to do it with wheels down. Interestingly, some logs say the landing gear never failed, but this guy - who built a spectacular one - said his broke in a day 😲 https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235078382-revell-148-consolidated-sa-10a-catalina/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANicoll Posted January 29, 2023 Author Share Posted January 29, 2023 Mike, Wow, that was a gorgeous build! And he said he was going to bin it? Ugh! Looking at the tail on his Cat - the original panel lines look to be there, but I think he definitely either filled them in and rescribed them, or he partially filled them in. All of the rivet holes on the tail he added so I'm thinking he filled the lines in to some extent. Here is where my build is at: SO having forgotten Peter's original advice, I tried two methods on removing the Mr Surfacer : sanding and Mr. Surfacer. This side was done with Mr Surfacer and a ton of cotton buds: The result is extremely consistent and looks pretty good, compared to the troughs that were there before, but still too heavy so will do another round of Mr Surfacer. The other side was sanded down with a Flex-i-file, a 1/2" flat sanding stick and an 1/8" sanding stick. Not really sure which side went faster but both were not arduous. The result on this side is the panel lines were filled-in to a much greater extent. Either way, more Mr. Surfacer is on the agenda. But at least the finish line for the tail is in sight. The purple tape is covering the small window. Chris 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterpools Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 Chris Nice progress on those offending - panel lines? Mr Surfacer always needs a number of applications after the extra is removed no matter which method, as it does shrink when drying. The real value of the Q-tip method is you can remove the Mr Surfacer and never loses a single rivet or bit of detail. For the tail gap, I might have used some epoxy or Milliput, as it was pretty nasty and will still help fill in those nasty gaps. You're making nice progress and almost there. 👍 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANicoll Posted January 30, 2023 Author Share Posted January 30, 2023 Thanks Peter! Sitting here waiting for the Tamiya Spitfire to be delivered (unfortunately, have to sign for it!), but itching to get the next round of Mr. Surfacer going. And yeah, will also address the tail gap. Mostly likely Milliput. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterpools Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 Chris Just take your time, Mr Surfacer just needs a few extra coats but no sanding required. 😉 My Tamiya Spit just arrived a little while ago. Tamiya most have sold a million of them. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANicoll Posted January 31, 2023 Author Share Posted January 31, 2023 UPS decided, after missing the delivery time, that I needed to 'verify my address' - but they had the address correct. Actually, UPS didn't show up for the evening deliveries here (I can look out over the complex). Frustrating, but it seems to happen frequently, and I have to be here to sign for the package (thank you Tamiya!). Oh well. Worst things are happening in the world. Got the next bit of Mr Surfacer on the tail. Might go back in a few minutes and work on it. 🙂 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterpools Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 Chris I rarely have to sign for deliveries but had to for the Tamiya Spit. Hang in there, I'm sure your Spit will show up today It's also important to use the Q Tip across the panel line and not rub along PL, as that way, the Q tip tends to dig into the Mr Surfacer and remove too much. I don't soak the Q Tiop either, just keep it damp. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnB Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 Those are some big ol' panel lines for sure! I'd go with several applications of Mr Surfacer and sand the crap out of it. Tedious (but, in the end, worth it). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landlubber Mike Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 Have you ever tried Tamiya 2-part epoxy putty? I used it on my SH Buffalo to fill some large gaps fix some other issues, and really liked it. I find that with larger areas, things like Tamiya's basic putty, Mr. Surfacer, Vallejo putty, etc. can shrink and require multiple applications, especially since the putty is considerably softer than the surrounding plastic. The two-part epoxy putty - for me at least - seemed much better for larger areas. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANicoll Posted January 31, 2023 Author Share Posted January 31, 2023 Hey Mike, I have not, but come to think about it I may have some in my drawer, I will take a look. You are right, seems like all of the other options do shrink to some degree. We have a rainy day - good day to be at the workbench! Chris 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterpools Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 Chris Any filler that is lacquer or solvent based, will shrink back as it dries. Normally after two or three coats and a good few days drying time, all is well. Epoxy and CAA do not shrink back but require sanding ... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandy1 VX-4 Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 How about Light cure resin? What are your thoughts about it? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterpools Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Vandy1 VX-4 said: How about Light cure resin? What are your thoughts about it? Haven't used it yet but it should work and no shrinkage from what I hear. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANicoll Posted February 2, 2023 Author Share Posted February 2, 2023 Definitely making progress on this resin tail. It has been a bit of an experiment using the Mr. Surfacer 500 and how it gets removed from around the panels lines. Mr Surfacer on one side, sanding on the other. The results have been pretty interesting. See for yourself: A few applications of Mr. Surfacer 500 the panel lines are just barely there, and almost match the rest of the aircraft. With another application or two these panels lines would disappear. Compare with the 'before' picture: The other side, Mr Surfacer and sanding actually took a turn: Instead of just sanding, tried using the cotton bud and Mr. Color thinner, and I probably took out some of the Mr. Surfacer out of the panel lines. Oops! The 'before' this last attempt: The panel lines cleaned out look better so will stay at this level now. Next is to clean up the fuselage seam, and the surfaces where the rudder goes (and clean up the rudder too) and get onto masking all of those clear parts. Oh yeah, and get onto the figures! Chris 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocRob Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 On 1/31/2023 at 1:51 AM, CANicoll said: UPS decided, after missing the delivery time, that I needed to 'verify my address' - but they had the address correct. Actually, UPS didn't show up for the evening deliveries here (I can look out over the complex). Frustrating, but it seems to happen frequently, and I have to be here to sign for the package (thank you Tamiya!). Oh well. Worst things are happening in the world. Sometimes I have to smile, when you all comment about delivery times. I know, having to sign can be a pita, but delays of one day or so, that's so first world . That is no critique of you Chris, it's more being desperate about my situation, where the last delivery from England took about a month to get here. This is no exception, it can take up to three weeks to get a packet from the Spanish mainland and sometimes, if the sending company chose the wrong transportation company the stuff goes to Madrid and will be returned to sender. Once in a while, little miracles happen, like a parce from Japan, which got here in six days. There are goods though, which are not possible to deliver to my island, which means, they will be sent to our sons in Germany and picked up on one of the rare occasions, one of us is visiting Berlin. That's why we normally travel first class, with 40-60kg of luggage, at least the way back. Island life, I'm not complaining and of course, I see myself some years ago living in Berlin and waiting eagerly for a package overdue one day . 7 hours ago, CANicoll said: A few applications of Mr. Surfacer 500 the panel lines are just barely there, and almost match the rest of the aircraft. With another application or two these panels lines would disappear. I have nothing to share about filling panel lines due to the lack of experience, but what about the layout of the given ones. I'm no PBY expert, but to me they look totally off. I see no sense for applying panel on the real thing, looking like that and they match in no way what is fabricated onto the rest of the fuselage. Cheers Rob 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocRob Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 The only 'reference' I have is the Revell 1/72 boxing of a PBY-5A, a kit designed by Academy. It looks like this, hmmh. Cheers Rob 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HubertB Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 Well, the lines make structural sense on the « flat » shape of the 1/72 kit. But, even if it corrects the wrong shape of the Monogram kit, the Belcher correction looks fatter, with the lines then seeming « off ». If the 1/72 kit is any accurate reference, you have a lot of matter to reshape, but the issue is the thickness of the plastic parts, knowing you already have a big step to smooth on the bottom 🙁 Hubert 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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