How to do the P &W R-2800-10W in the Airfix kit part 2

[CrankyCrafstman]

Hey all

   I decide to split this into two parts one on information on the actual engine and this one on the actual build.

   First this is the most accurately done model of this engine in any scale. This is my perspective, but I think I'm right. Its way better than Trumpeters 1/32 Hellcat engines even better than Tamiyas Corsair P&W R-2800 (Corsairs did have a different variant of this engine) and better then the 1/32 versions done in resins.

   Ok let's get started. First parts # J3 & J4 with J5 are WAY TO BIG!!!, that is the diameter of the area that the remaining engine parts go over is to TO LARGE. You will need to sand approximately 1/2mm to 3/4mm off of the area were the parts J8,J9,J12,J10,J11 and J20 fit you also need to remove material from inside the inner diameters of those parts in order to get them to fit. Sand carefully and test fit often. It's a lot of work but it will make up into a fantastic model. Rember you also need to do all the clean up to all of these parts that you would normally have to do.

If you go to YouTube and watch Nigels builds he ex3it very good. His 5th video on the FAA one shows him removing material from the crankcase with his lathe. Good stuff.

  If you will notice on part J11 there are 4 tubes that are molded onto this part that go from one cylinder head to the next. Airfix represented these as a basic tube, when in actuality they have a rubber sleeve in the middle of each one and hose clamps on each end of the rubber tube. You can represent these with some Tamiya tape cut to 3 1/2 mm or 1/8" (0.125") and then wrap them around the tube 3 times. Then on the ends of the rubber tube just in form the end wrap some 1/64" pinstripe tape to represent the hose clamps. The rubber tube should be painted matte black and the clamps should be painted silver. If you don't want to go this far you can just paint a 1/8" stripe matte black around the existing tubes on part J11. This is how I'm doing mine.

I will eventually paint these matte black and silver.

this is the small pinstripe tape that I used. I got this of of Ebay.

here are the parts painted with Vallejo tire black to simulate rubber.

close up view.

[Jeff]

20 hours ago, CrankyCrafstman said:

Hey all

   I decide to split this into two parts one on information on the actual engine and this one on the actual build.

   First this is the most accurately done model of this engine in any scale. This is my perspective, but I think I'm right. Its way better than Trumpeters 1/32 Hellcat engines even better than Tamiyas Corsair P&W R-2800 (Corsairs did have a different variant of this engine) and better then the 1/32 versions done in resins.

   Ok let's get started. First parts # J3 & J4 with J5 are way to big, that is the diameter of the area that the remaining engine parts go over is to large. You will need to sand approximately 1/2mm to 3/4mm off of the area were the parts J8,J9,J12,J10,J11 and J20 fit you also need to remove material from inside the inner diameters of those parts in order to get them to fit. Sand carefully and test fit often. It's a lot of work but it will make up into a fantastic model. Rember you also need to do all the clean up to all of these parts that you would normally have to do.

  If you will notice on part J11 there are 4 tubes that are molded onto this part that go from one cylinder head to the next. Airfix represented these as a basic tube, when in actuality they have a rubber sleeve in the middle of each one and hose clamps on each end of the rubber tube. You can represent these with some Tamiya tape cut to 3 1/2 mm or 1/8" (0.125") and rap wrap them around the tube 3 times. Then on the ends of the rubber tube just in form the end wrap some 1/64" pinstripe tape to represent the hose clamps. The rubber tube should be painted matte black and the clamps should be painted silver. If you don't want to go this far you can just paint a 1/8" stripe matte black around the existing tubes on part J11. This is how I'm doing mine.

I will eventually paint these matte black and silver.

this is the small pinstripe tape that I used. I got this of of Ebay.

here are the parts paint with Vallejo tire blackto simulate rubber.

close up view.

As the General said on the Blue Max movie...... " Interesting exploit"..............  this is really interesting, as it is not something I've seen or going to see in such magnificent detail..... oh yeah, guys detail the engines etc, but this is one I'd like to follow and will most definitely learn something along the way..... at the beginning, you mention that this engine is the most accurate one modeled so far..... better than the Tammy on and resin ones etc..... would you think that maybe just because it is bigger? Would that maybe the reason, I kind of went there, but then on the other hand , the old school Airfix Merlin's  were not real great shakes....  this is going to be one for me to watch, Hope it's ok to tag along ...... 

[CrankyCrafstman]

Hey Jeff

 By all means tag along. When I say it is the most accurate I mean it has almost everything included on the kit engine. There are a few things missing, but thats what modeling is all about. The molding to me seems pretty crisp, you need to be careful removing parts from the sprues so you don't cut of something that is supposed to be there. There are linkages missing but those are almost impossible to create by molded plastic.

  Now this is only one version of this motor and I'm pretty sure it was only in the Hellcat and Black widow. The P-47's, Corsairs were different variants. 

Ron G 

[Martinnfb]

a little motional picture 

[Jeff]

2 hours ago, CrankyCrafstman said:

Hey Jeff

 By all means tag along. When I say it is the most accurate I mean it has almost everything included on the kit engine. There are a few things missing, but thats what modeling is all about. The molding to me seems pretty crisp, you need to be careful removing parts from the sprues so you don't cut of something that is supposed to be there. There are linkages missing but those are almost impossible to create by molded plastic.

  Now this is only one version of this motor and I'm pretty sure it was only in the Hellcat and Black widow. The P-47's, Corsairs were different variants. 

Ron G 

Oh, for sure, Ron, I didn't mean to say that the others were crappy or your explanation was misleading, I totally get where you are coming from, it is the 'finer' details that you are doing that will make this already good engine 'better', which in turn will make it much more 'accurate' in the model world.... almost like a kit in itself? Now there is an idea..... one in the bird worn out and all grubby, and a brand new one ready to install on a stand???  hhhmmmmmm there's an idea eh? ( Like you don't have enough on your plate   )

[CrankyCrafstman]

19 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Oh, for sure, Ron, I didn't mean to say that the others were crappy or your explanation was misleading, I totally get where you are coming from, it is the 'finer' details that you are doing that will make this already good engine 'better', which in turn will make it much more 'accurate' in the model world.... almost like a kit in itself? Now there is an idea..... one in the bird worn out and all grubby, and a brand new one ready to install on a stand???  hhhmmmmmm there's an idea eh? ( Like you don't have enough on your plate   )

That sounds very interesting Jeff  now if I can just get Airfix to sell me just the engine sprues that maybe a possiblity...lol

Ron G 

[CrankyCrafstman]

Here is a bit more on the engine. The build sequence that Airfix has used is not 100% the right way to do it. If you go through the instructions you will see parts K13 &K14 these are part of the supercharger housing and need to be put on in <SEC. 152> on page 39. The reason for this is there are some good size gaps on them and they need to be filled and sanded.

as you can see this is the second application of Perfect Plastic Putty it my even need a third. The area that is visible in this photo needs to be painted Grumman gray. Look below for a spray out I did of my custom mixed Vallejo Grumman gray. I think I need to make it a little more blue.

 The instructions call for it to be painted 125 US dark grey, thats not correct. Here is a photo of a P&W R- 2800.As you can see it is a blueish gray, and yes I do need to blue my mix up a bit.

Ron G 

I blued it up a bit, what do you think. I'm still not satisfied. I may make up a new batch.

Ron G 

[CrankyCrafstman]

Ok here are some more updates.

This photo shows part J20 from page 40 and J13 from page 42 joined together. You need to do this before you glue it to the crankcase parts J3 and J4 from page 39. This has to be done because you have to fill and sand the joints between them before you mount them and paint them.

 You can see a white part glued to part J20 just behind J13 and to the side. This is a cast in port for an oil pipe that you can see in the previous P&W R-2800 photo. It is made from plastic card stock. And on each end there is a piece of 0.025" (0.64mm) plastic rod to simulate bolt heads. I need to add a piece of 0.06" (1.5mm) long plastic tube to it to simulate a fitting for the oil line that goes from it down and back through the cylinders. It's the larger silver tube from the same previous photo.

This photo shows the joint between parts J13 and J20 that needs to be filled and sanded all the way around. The small cast in circle on part J13 is for the P&W emblem. I will be back with more as soon as I recharge this old battery...lol

RonG 

[Clunkmeister]

All I can say is that I have a special relationship with the big Pratt. I worked between a pair of them for a few years, and other than a mag or two, never gave me any concern. Now, those Godforsaken electric props are another story. 

[CrankyCrafstman]

Ok here are some more updates. I have some of the parts painted.

This photo of the front of the engine showing some of the parts temporarily assembled. In the Squadron Walk Around F6F Hellcat on page 45 lower right corner, they state there are two magnetos and the propeller governor mounted on the front gear case. THIS IS WRONG!!! In the above photo you can see two unpainted grey parts the rear one, part J27 is the Bendix-Scintilla DF18LN or DF18RN magneto. The front one, part J24 & J23 is the Hamilton propeller governor. On either side of the magneto are the Scintilla distributors parts J29 & J31 make up the starboard distributor and parts J28 & J32 make up the port distributor. You can also see the baffles with the lower oil collection tank just out of the picture. Parts J27 and J24 get painted semi-gloss black and part J23 gets painted silver. There is a cable linkage that attaches to the peg on J23 and goes back through the cylinders and eventually to the cockpit.

This photo shows the rear of the engine supercharger housing and rear gear case. The little blue/gray cylinder on top of the rear gear case is a control valve to direct oil to the appropriate supercharger clutch. Center circular pad with the slot is for the electrical starter part J15 which gets painted semi-gloss black. The circular pad next to the center one is for what I think is the hydraulic pump it could be something else the P&W book isn't clear on this. The black part on top of the supercharger housing is the Bendix PT-13 carburetor. This all needs to have detail painting done to it.Another photo of the magneto, distributors and the propeller governor.

Straight on view of the front. You can see the push rod tubes and were I have masked off the little tubes between the cylinders. The cylinders need to be painted steel on the bottom half and silver on the top. I will be adding spark plugs and braided plug wires as soon as they come in the mail. 

In in this photo you can see the rear bank of cylinders and on top of each one are the rocker covers they need to be painted matte black. You can see where the intake tubes mount and were the engine mounts to the engine support.

The other side of the rear of the engine. There is alot of stuff that still has to mount to this to make up a complete engine. I'll be back later after I fuel up on some food and recharge the old battery, so to speak.

Ron G 

[Jeff]

Ron, quite clearly this thread is showing , me at least, that you have a massive passion for these round engines, and have worked on the real deal for quite some time,, which also to me........... is VERY cool, not only a tutelage in fine scale modeling , but an AME course on aero engines, which in this case is MUCH better than trying to figure, for me at least, it all out of a book which may miss the fine details......... I'm really enjoying this on all levels, the modelling, and the AME stuff......... I am patiently waiting for the next installment.........

[CrankyCrafstman]

11 hours ago, Jeff said:

Ron, quite clearly this thread is showing , me at least, that you have a massive passion for these round engines, and have worked on the real deal for quite some time,, which also to me........... is VERY cool, not only a tutelage in fine scale modeling , but an AME course on aero engines, which in this case is MUCH better than trying to figure, for me at least, it all out of a book which may miss the fine details......... I'm really enjoying this on all levels, the modelling, and the AME stuff......... I am patiently waiting for the next installment.........

Thanks Jeff, I do have a passion for the big radials, although I've never worked on them. I read a lot and have an engineers mind. I get a lot  of my information from the Pratt  and Whitney book on the R-2800. (See photo below) It is about two inches thick and goes into extreme detail, but is a Vvveerrryyy technical read. Also did work as an auto and truck mechanic in my early years. As soon as  I get some more done I will post it.

Ron G 

[Jeff]

I love a deep passion.....it is so cool to have that and the where with all to delve into it, and learn the subject thoroughly..... I am impressed......this is really interesting to me Ron..... I was just a heavy equipment operator/semi truck driver, but always wanted to know how the stuff I was operating worked.... a long while ago we got some new Western Star gravel trucks at work, and I was the only guy who took an owners manual home to read......its all in the details...

[CrankyCrafstman]

Hey Jeff you are so right.

The ones that learn do and the ones that don't won't.

[CrankyCrafstman]

Ok, so here we go. Some more pictures of the painted parts. I had to go back and retouch up most of the parts, the paint didn't take too well, probably because I didn't wash the parts, my bad.

This photo shows the crankcase and the rear of the crankcase. After watching Nige's video on YouTube I realized I needed to remove the rear portion of the crankcase, so that I would be able to assemble the engine the way he did, although this is not the same way as the instruction manual calls for. This is a better way to do it.

This photo shows the front gear case and the port and starboard Scintilla distributors. The dark silver/steel colored part at the bottom is the front oil scavenger pump, which is part of J13.

This photo shows the rear gear case. The part on top that is painted black is a control valve to direct oil to the appropriate supercharger clutch. I believe that the other black part is an electrical box.

 

This photo shows the front and rear push rod tubes.

This photo shows part J26 on the left which is a oil line from the front oil scavenger pump to the tank on the baffles part J2. The white piece of tube is a part I made from 0.056" plastic rod. It is to be an oil line from the part I scratch built onto J20 back through the cylinders to the rear of the engine. Airfix forgot to include this part. They both need to be painted silver.

Another view of the supercharger housing area of the crankcase.

This photo shows one of 9 intake tubes that go from the cylinder heads to the supercharger housing. These need to be cleaned up before you paint them alot of seam lines.

This photo shows the baffles part J2, and you can see where I painted the tank Grumman gray. The ring of this part needs to be painted interior green, but in my case since I'm doing mine as a F6F-3 mine will be nonspecular light grey.

 

This photo shows part J24/J23 the propeller governor.

This is part J15 the electrical starter.

This is part J27 the Bendix-scintilla magneto.

Another view showing the front gear case you can clearly see the area painted siver/steel this is the front scavenger pump and you can also see the part I scratch built on to the front gear case. Remember the little circular pad just above the front scavenger pump is for the P&W emblem. I have to source one because I don't believe that Airfix supplied a decal for this.

This is part J16 which I believe is the hydraulic pump for the landing gear and other hydraulic stuff.

 

These are the Scintilla distributors port and starboard.

This shows the front cylinder bank.

And this shows the rear cylinder bank. The upper half of the cylinders still need to be painted silver and the rocker covers need to be painted matte black, all 18 of em...OH! and all the little hose clamps I scratch built need to be painted silver. So that's it for know I'll be back with more in awhile. As soon as all the paint has a good couple of days to dry. That way I can start assembling some of this so I can move on to the rear area. So long for now.

Ron G 

[Clunkmeister]

Ron, I can’t tell you much about them other than they leaked and used oil like champs, and, if you kept throttle applications smooth, keep the temps fairly constant, and didn’t overspeed them, they lasted forever.

I’m loving this, Ron! Seriously. Keep going, man, I’m watching a master modeler at work here.

[CrankyCrafstman]

8 hours ago, Clunkmeister said:

Ron, I can’t tell you much about them other than they leaked and used oil like champs, and, if you kept throttle applications smooth, keep the temps fairly constant, and didn’t overspeed them, they lasted forever.

I’m loving this, Ron! Seriously. Keep going, man, I’m watching a master modeler at work here.

Thanks Ernie coming from you that means alot.

Ron G 

[CrankyCrafstman]

Ok here are some more teaser photos.

Front view 

Front side view 

Rear view 

  These are just temporarily put together, they still need to be finish painted and detailed.

  Here are some more photos of whats available from Eduard for this kit.

This is Eduards instrument panel and interior.

This is Eduards rear radio components. Not sure why Eduard did these silver. I'm pretty sure they should be black. 

This is Eduards F6F-3/5 seat.

This is Eduards engine Flaps and duct parts. This will really spruce up the Ol' engine bay...what. (little British hummer there...lol)

This is Eduards inner & outer canopy masks.

This is the second half of Eduards mask set with masks for the tail wheel and wing tip lights. I still like Airscales instrument panel set better and I have it, but I do like the rear radios and the seat. I have the masks and engine ones on order waiting for them to come in the mail. I received my braided wire from Detail Masters that I plan on using for the ignition leads and wires from distributors to magnetos. Here are some pictures of them.

This is the larger wire for the wires from the distributors to the magnetos. There is way more then you need, but extras are always nice.

these are the ones for the ignition leads (2) packs required to do the whole engine with some left over. I have scale spark plugs and some AN fttings on order, waiting for them to come in the mail. Well thats it for now. I'm going to do some modeling. See you later with the next installment.

Ron G 

[Grunhertz]

Following closely Ron. Usually for the grey sections of the r2800 I use tamiya's neutral grey as that appears to have the blue tinge to it that works. I will be using a lot of what you have done here. It's a masterclass in the 2800 but I am peeved that airfix didn't include the pw logo for the cranck case eduard supply a nice pe one for their 1/48 Hellcats 

[harv]

2 hours ago, Grunhertz said:

Following closely Ron. Usually for the grey sections of the r2800 I use tamiya's neutral grey as that appears to have the blue tinge to it that works. I will be using a lot of what you have done here. It's a masterclass in the 2800 but I am peeved that airfix didn't include the pw logo for the cranck case eduard supply a nice pe one for their 1/48 Hellcats 

Also in some of their 1/32 sets.Very nice work !!.......harv 

[CrankyCrafstman]

3 hours ago, Grunhertz said:

Following closely Ron. Usually for the grey sections of the r2800 I use tamiya's neutral grey as that appears to have the blue tinge to it that works. I will be using a lot of what you have done here. It's a masterclass in the 2800 but I am peeved that airfix didn't include the pw logo for the cranck case eduard supply a nice pe one for their 1/48 Hellcats 

I'm in contact with someone that is going to be doing the logo decals in 1/72, 1/48, 1/32, 1/24 and 1/18 scales all on 1 sheet, keep your fingers crossed he comes through.

[Jeff]

15 hours ago, CrankyCrafstman said:

I'm in contact with someone that is going to be doing the logo decals in 1/72, 1/48, 1/32, 1/24 and 1/18 scales all on 1 sheet, keep your fingers crossed he comes through.

oooooooooooooo  I would be interested  in a sheet... ........if they want to sell one at a reasonable price....

[Grunhertz]

So would I 

[CrankyCrafstman]

Hey all 

 Small update, a couple of pictures of the front gear case with the magneto and port distributor and the braided wire with hex fittings that I made.

[Jeff]

Ron.... you may not have to 'make' the fittings, if you have a Hobbytown USA store near you, go there and in their locked case with all the Detail Master car stuff, they have 'fittings' in 1/25 scale, I bought some for my 1/25 scale truck models, failing that  try the local Hobby Lobby, store, they 'might' have them...... HT USA in Spokane Washington had them, that's where I got mine.....and they come in chrome, red, and blue