Infinity Models SB2C-4 Helldiver. Finished. Well, OK, maybe not.

[KevinM]

On 12/11/2022 at 7:39 PM, Clunkmeister said:

 Come on down, we have a few. If you get to Hurst on a Bell Course, I can pick you up and we can rock and roll. 

Ernie I was going to play with ya but decided I be nice to you today.

[Clunkmeister]

47 minutes ago, KevinM said:

Ernie I was going to play with ya but decided I be nice to you today.

I’m not a switch hitter, bud. Guaranteed. Mine is exit only, trust me. 
However, I have been known to make tasteless jokes at the expense of those that do… 😄

[Clunkmeister]

Guys, I’m in the middle of building up the PE flaps for this model, and it’s a tedious thing. Not difficult, but tedious.  
Once done and Ihave a better idea how they are supposed to look, I’m going to go one step further here, and attempt to modify the plastic flaps, documenting as I go, which, the more I look at them, the more potential they seem to have.  OOB, they’re OK from regular viewing distance, but if left as they come, they fall really short when viewed up close. They’re thick and clunky from a foot away.  Already I can see a couple things that can be done to help them out. 
Stay Tuned! 

[Peterpools]

Ernie

I'm front and center, tuned to the right frequency and ready for the ride. 

 

 

 

[KevinM]

16 hours ago, Clunkmeister said:

I’m not a switch hitter, bud. Guaranteed. Mine is exit only, trust me. 
However, I have been known to make tasteless jokes at the expense of those that do… 😄

I did not realize how that sounded but I was really trying to convey you won't let me play with your guns

 

[Clunkmeister]

The landing gear absolutely confounded me.  I’ve been working on this one side for several days. It’s sitting there in-situ, not secured in to the wing. There are marks for where the strut is to go, but what you see here is about 8 parts. The good news is, the main legs are sturdy and appear quite capable of supporting what is turning out to be one substantial build. 
I’ve had to cut, trim, rearrange, and modify some of the linkages here, and am nowhere near finished on this side.  References are going to really benefit any prospective builders, but everything is here, you just gotta assemble it right. 

[Peterpools]

Ernie

Glad to see you are plugging away on the PE flaps - when done they will be a standout for sure.

The gear on the other hand: Shame on Infinity. All I can say is, with good engineering, clear and easy instructions, they should fit out of the box and they apparently aren't even close.

 

 

 

 

[Clunkmeister]

55 minutes ago, Peterpools said:

Ernie

Glad to see you are plugging away on the PE flaps - when done they will be a standout for sure.

The gear on the other hand: Shame on Infinity. All I can say is, with good engineering, clear and easy instructions, they should fit out of the box and they apparently aren't even close.

 

 

 

 

I think some may be operator error actually, but a downfall of most short run kits is the lack of instructions.  The instructions are the typical vague but professional looking exploded views as expected these days.

Since short run kits don’t generally have locator tabs and such, there is no “one way” to assemble stuff, and as a result, either intimate knowledge of the subject, or invest in some good reference material.   The second attempt will take a fraction of the time. 
Plus, for the super detailer, there is a TON of piping and valuing that can be added to the MLG wells to busy it all up.  I expect I’ll install some, enough to busy it up.

 

[Peterpools]

Ernie

 

Got ya. Just feel the instructions should be more definitive on where and how parts go. 

[Clunkmeister]

10 hours ago, Peterpools said:

Ernie

 

Got ya. Just feel the instructions should be more definitive on where and how parts go. 

Agreed 100%.  Experienced builders who build nothing but Tamiya, Hasegawa, and Revell charge in to one of these with a full head of steam and very quickly build themselves straight into an inescapable corner.  As a result the entire kit gets a black mark and reputation, when, in actual fact, what they needed to have done is study the parts, gather references, go at it slowly and carefully, one step this side of a scratchbuild. 
 

That alone is half the problems with these and similar kits. 

[CANicoll]

On 12/5/2022 at 2:10 PM, Clunkmeister said:

It’s really not that bad. It’s just a matter of scale.  Here, there’s just more of everything. Instead of Tamiya White, you go to Evergreen card stock and/or CA plus Milliput. You’re doing the same thing, in the same spots, but on a much larger area. 
Im no world class expert builder. I just don’t give up.   That is a downfall as well. I can’t build something I don’t like because I can’t get the enthusiasm which means I won’t stick with it. 

I have exactly the same problem:  if I'm not that interested in the subject, I really don't have an interest in the build.  I really have that issue with WNW kits.  They are amazingly detailed, incredibly well researched, beautifully engineered, and just too involved to keep my interest.  As much as I love the look of the WWI planes, doing rigging and turnbuckles and all just doesn't do much for me.  Saves me a ton of $$ too!

[Clunkmeister]

2 hours ago, CANicoll said:

I have exactly the same problem:  if I'm not that interested in the subject, I really don't have an interest in the build.  I really have that issue with WNW kits.  They are amazingly detailed, incredibly well researched, beautifully engineered, and just too involved to keep my interest.  As much as I love the look of the WWI planes, doing rigging and turnbuckles and all just doesn't do much for me.  Saves me a ton of $$ too!

And I’m the exact opposite when it comes go WW1 stuff. I love the quirkiness of them.

I don’t like building common aircraft. I like unique.  People build a Spitfire, ail look at a Hawker Henley. People want a 110? I’ll look at a 410..  I’m a huge fan of the most neglected and overlooked part of aviation: 1950s Naval aviation.

Cutlass, Tiger, Cougar, Venom, Attacker, Sea Fury, Corsair -4, Firefly, Banshee, Fury, and that wonderfully ugly RCN Avenger. 
Thank you Lord for Paul Fisher. He brought us some seriously cool 1950s jets.   I have three!! Cutlass kits, and I’ll most likely build them all! 

[Clunkmeister]

I’m starting to really, really like MRP paint. 

[HubertB]

18 minutes ago, Clunkmeister said:

I’m starting to really, really like MRP paint. 

Welcome in the converts' club !

Hubert

[Peterpools]

On 12/21/2022 at 8:53 PM, Clunkmeister said:

Agreed 100%.  Experienced builders who build nothing but Tamiya, Hasegawa, and Revell charge in to one of these with a full head of steam and very quickly build themselves straight into an inescapable corner.  As a result the entire kit gets a black mark and reputation, when, in actual fact, what they needed to have done is study the parts, gather references, go at it slowly and carefully, one step this side of a scratchbuild. 
 

That alone is half the problems with these and similar kits. 

Ernie

Very well one of the major issues I've been having these past few years and am taking a good, hard look how I approach building. My new approach: slowing down, trying a lot harder to understand what the manufacture wants us to do and then spend the time working out a solution. Blaming poor instructions surely doesn't get the kit built or cut the mustard. The POA should be: if others have built it, so can I. 

 

 

 

[Clunkmeister]

Exactly, Peter. There are a few very nice kits that can be built OOB with no issues.  Tamiya, Hasegawa, some Trumpeter, and even some ROG come to mind. 
To me, most of the others have various buildability issues.  Short run kits just amplify it to some extent. 
 

[BlrwestSiR]

Having the right approach is absolutely key to some kits. 

The Bandai Falcon I'm building is press fit and absolutely superlative in that regard. Everything goes exactly where it's supposed to and how it's supposed to. They've keyed each alignment pin/fastener so they can only go in one way, even to the point of making the pins asymmetrical so you can't put a similar looking part in the wrong spot. They even point it out to you in the instructions. Which means it would take serious work to screw it up if that's even possible. But, it's a huge amount of work painting it to look reasonably good. So in that way, it's a different challenge.

The few short run kits I've done, I have generally enjoyed. Even the ones that folks have complained endlessly about- Fly, PCM, Special Hobby. Sure, I've had a couple go sideways but I learned from them. Like don't accidentally drop them when they're almost finished. 

But Ernie, as much as you make it look easy, rigging is still a black art. 

[shark64]

Its starting to look the part. Just read the history on this plane...huh! Talking about   Many issues. Its such a cool looking plane. This is on my list to do some

day. Great job on yours.

[Clunkmeister]

2 hours ago, shark64 said:

Its starting to look the part. Just read the history on this plane...huh! Talking about   Many issues. Its such a cool looking plane. This is on my list to do some

day. Great job on yours.

Many of the issues with the aircraft weren’t the fault of Curtiss per se. 

Curtiss wanted to lengthen the rear fuselage a few feet to aid stability, but the Navy absolutely refused to allow it, citing space concerns, yet the Navy absolutely insisted that the aircraft needed to meet performance numbers that dictated it’s size.  Ironic considering the size of the Grumman Avenger…..
Then, the Navy would change mission specs halfway through development, etc, etc.  Plus with the wartime rush, once the design was finalized, it was rushed into Service long before it had been fully debugged.  
If development time hadn’t been wasted screwing around with changing design specs, the aircraft would have had more time for testing and modifications.   
But what finally emerged was tough, reliable, and capable, if less stable due to the Navy’s refusal to allow the tail to be lengthened.  
Greece and France both flew them quite successfully after the War ended, and even took them to war again. 

[Clunkmeister]

15 hours ago, BlrwestSiR said:

Having the right approach is absolutely key to some kits. 

The Bandai Falcon I'm building is press fit and absolutely superlative in that regard. Everything goes exactly where it's supposed to and how it's supposed to. They've keyed each alignment pin/fastener so they can only go in one way, even to the point of making the pins asymmetrical so you can't put a similar looking part in the wrong spot. They even point it out to you in the instructions. Which means it would take serious work to screw it up if that's even possible. But, it's a huge amount of work painting it to look reasonably good. So in that way, it's a different challenge.

The few short run kits I've done, I have generally enjoyed. Even the ones that folks have complained endlessly about- Fly, PCM, Special Hobby. Sure, I've had a couple go sideways but I learned from them. Like don't accidentally drop them when they're almost finished. 

But Ernie, as much as you make it look easy, rigging is still a black art. 

Rigging isn’t a hard thing. It’s simply one line at a time. Start in the center and work outward. 
Not many people agree with my take on rigging: to me, it’s structural and it needs to be tough and capable of supporting the weight of the model.  I’ll forever shout the benefits of scale sized mono line. 

[Peterpools]

Ernie, some mighty informative insight in the Helldivers problems and flight issues.  For me dive bombers and torpedo planes need to have the look and feel of a hardened boxer, that could take a punch and dish out more - and that the Helldiver had. 

 

 

[Clunkmeister]

Thanks y’all!  I’ve been working on the flaps, and found out that they’re a ton of work, but building the PE, or heavily reworking the kit flaps with really help the look of the thing. 

[KevinM]

Nice Flaps will help alot for the look!

[Clunkmeister]

1 hour ago, KevinM said:

Nice Flaps will help alot for the look!

They ARE the centerpiece of a dive bomber, aren’t they?

[GazzaS]

Those dive flaps look pretty awesome, Ernie.  I wonder if they contributed much drag to the wing when they were retracted.