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My airfix 1/24 spitfire!


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1 hour ago, HubertB said:

Maybe I’m wrong (and I am far from a Spitfire expert), but I thought the seat was bakelite (a thermoset plastic, like the one used on the old -fixed- telephones), not plywood.

Hubert

Edgar Brooks describes the seat as plastic.  Not Bakelite.  Just plastic.

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Bakelite is, with acetate and celluloid, one of the oldest forms of plastic. Unlike many modern plastics, bakelite is thermoset, i.e. once « cooked » it keeps its shape for ever. Polystyrene for instance is thermo-reversible: it is shaped by being molded at high temperature, but heating it again will melt it and the shape will disappear.

So, bakelite it was ;). Bakelite is mostly black, by the addition of carbon powder (like the old telephone sets), but can be other colors, like white. On the Spitfire, it was a red-brown color.

Hubert

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Bakelite was still around when I was a kid in the early 70s - most of the telephones had a bakelite case for example, also the casing of electric plugs and light bulb holders. Had a distinctive fishy smell if it overheated! 🤢 

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8 hours ago, GusMac said:

Bakelite was still around when I was a kid in the early 70s - most of the telephones had a bakelite case for example, also the casing of electric plugs and light bulb holders. Had a distinctive fishy smell if it overheated! 🤢 

It’s still used on domestic appliances. Its main interest is that it can withstand (moderate) heat without deformation, unlike most modern polymers. It sets at around 170° C in the molding process (where you press-mold bakelite sheets or powder).

Hubert

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Well that sure makes more sense!!! I don’t know where I got it.. I had already painted it and then repainted it to match!!  I know they made a lot of stuff from wood so I just rolled with it.. I guess it still looks like the brown plastic060D739C-7E33-4F95-A24C-1E2BEC40587B.thumb.png.6bfa4c6bb73bebf3096bb93865d2e6ca.png

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I think I can still reach in and paint the green edges on my “ Bakelite seat “ to match the one photo, although that’s the only one I’ve seen with the green edging.  Thanks all for bringing that to my attention!!! Good thing my try at wood simulation just looked like brown plastic!!!

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Moving on a little, I think the seat turned out like Bakelite!  started on the gun bays. Using mastermodel brass gun kit. Just got a couple of Sven’s 1/24 scale stencils from one man army, they are awesome! I got a kit for my typhoon as well. It’s kinda hard with such blurry eyes but I’ll keep going!

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On 4/23/2023 at 7:07 PM, Irishman1 said:

A little more while camping in the rv.

tried my hand at making the seat look like plywood. I’ll redo the brown leather seat back to black leather tho.

 

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And yes, I now know the seat it plastic! Thanks for pointing me in the right direction guys! Great amount of knowledge here and the help everyone gives it what makes this forum such fun to be apart of!

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More information on the plastic seats, from Edgar and the full thread is here.

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/41616-a-question-regarding-early-spitfire-seats/

The plastic (not Tufnol*, or Bakelite**, whatever the "experts" tell you) seat was planned for, in 1938, initially for Castle Bromwich, exclusively, but there were huge problems with its (lack of) inherent strength, and it wasn't passed for use until May, 1940. Although the seat could be changed over (relatively, it's a multi-handed job) easily, it's a bit unlikely in your example.

Edgar

* Tufnol, as a company, existed before the war, in Glasgow, but the seat was manufactured by Aeroplastics Ltd. (also in Glasgow.) Tufnol make a resin/paper material now, and Aeroplastics no longer exist, but I've been unable to find out if Tufnol took them over.

** Bakelite is a moulded material, of a granular type of material, which needs precise temperature control and tremendous pressure for moulding. A friend made instrument cases from Bakelite, around 30 years ago, and says that the size of the seat would have made consistency of the temperature impossible, together with the huge increase needed in the pressure.

And a bit more technical from Stephen MG in the same thread.

Mish - not actually 'plastic' as we know it now but an 'engineering plastic' called SRBP (Synthetic Resin Bonded Paper). It's basically layers of paper impregnated with resin to produce a 'plastic' type material. This method of manufacture means that it can be made in a mould - seat shaped for example! It is characteristically a light red-brown colour - hence the colour often seen in old aircraft seats. SRBP is the generic name for it, trade names are Paxoline, Lamitex etc..

SRBF (Synthetic Resin Bonded Fabric) is a similar material which used fabric instead of paper in it's structure.

The same basic style of seat and SRBP material was used in countless aircraft - Spitfire, Hurricane, Hornet, Vampire for example. They even appeared in some Canberras. SRBF was extensively used in making things like instrument panels and heel plates on cockpit floors etc. - good examples of both can be seen in the Mosquito, and most commonly as insulators and circuit board material in the electrics.

The reason people refer to this material as Tufnol is because it's a famous brand name - a bit like referring to any vacuum cleaner as a Hoover or any clear plastic as Perspex. Personally I always use generic SRBF/P because it's much cheaper than paying for the brand name. So technically Edgar is right, it's not correct to refer to the material as Tufnol, but it's SRBP. Bakelite is a completely different material and is quite brittle. It would be useless for making aircraft sets but the name does get used, even cropping up in official documentation sometimes. (Edit: Troffa - you beat me to it!)

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

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2 hours ago, Spitfire said:

More information on the plastic seats, from Edgar and the full thread is here.

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/41616-a-question-regarding-early-spitfire-seats/

The plastic (not Tufnol*, or Bakelite**, whatever the "experts" tell you) seat was planned for, in 1938, initially for Castle Bromwich, exclusively, but there were huge problems with its (lack of) inherent strength, and it wasn't passed for use until May, 1940. Although the seat could be changed over (relatively, it's a multi-handed job) easily, it's a bit unlikely in your example.

Edgar

* Tufnol, as a company, existed before the war, in Glasgow, but the seat was manufactured by Aeroplastics Ltd. (also in Glasgow.) Tufnol make a resin/paper material now, and Aeroplastics no longer exist, but I've been unable to find out if Tufnol took them over.

** Bakelite is a moulded material, of a granular type of material, which needs precise temperature control and tremendous pressure for moulding. A friend made instrument cases from Bakelite, around 30 years ago, and says that the size of the seat would have made consistency of the temperature impossible, together with the huge increase needed in the pressure.

And a bit more technical from Stephen MG in the same thread.

Mish - not actually 'plastic' as we know it now but an 'engineering plastic' called SRBP (Synthetic Resin Bonded Paper). It's basically layers of paper impregnated with resin to produce a 'plastic' type material. This method of manufacture means that it can be made in a mould - seat shaped for example! It is characteristically a light red-brown colour - hence the colour often seen in old aircraft seats. SRBP is the generic name for it, trade names are Paxoline, Lamitex etc..

SRBF (Synthetic Resin Bonded Fabric) is a similar material which used fabric instead of paper in it's structure.

The same basic style of seat and SRBP material was used in countless aircraft - Spitfire, Hurricane, Hornet, Vampire for example. They even appeared in some Canberras. SRBF was extensively used in making things like instrument panels and heel plates on cockpit floors etc. - good examples of both can be seen in the Mosquito, and most commonly as insulators and circuit board material in the electrics.

The reason people refer to this material as Tufnol is because it's a famous brand name - a bit like referring to any vacuum cleaner as a Hoover or any clear plastic as Perspex. Personally I always use generic SRBF/P because it's much cheaper than paying for the brand name. So technically Edgar is right, it's not correct to refer to the material as Tufnol, but it's SRBP. Bakelite is a completely different material and is quite brittle. It would be useless for making aircraft sets but the name does get used, even cropping up in official documentation sometimes. (Edit: Troffa - you beat me to it!)

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

Well, as I mentioned in my first post where I mentioned « bakelite », I am far from an expert on Spitfires.

So, I was wrong about Bakelite, and thanks for correcting me, Dennis. I will go to bed a bit less stupid and more knowledgeable tonight.

Hubert

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10 hours ago, HubertB said:

Well, as I mentioned in my first post where I mentioned « bakelite », I am far from an expert on Spitfires.

So, I was wrong about Bakelite, and thanks for correcting me, Dennis. I will go to bed a bit less stupid and more knowledgeable tonight.

Hubert

Thank you for that I have always thought that we should learn something new every day, I still do that, every day I read through modelling websites and I always find something to copy and stash away for future use.

Cheers

Dennis

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More progress this week, it’s tough because of my blurry vision but it’s been getting a little better so build while I can! Got the engin done and installed. I’ll start detailing the engine and engine bay. Need to figure out a good way to get the Rolls Royce plates on the valve covers done. Ideas? Built a scratch door floor and hinges for the coolers( thanks Craigboy!!)

it’s really surprising to see the size difference between the spitfire and the hellcat and thunderbolt, no wonder the big American fighters could take so much damage.

I can’t wait to get painting and trying my hand  with the one man army stencils 

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