There's always one ... ** Warning: Rant Incoming **

[Artful69]

So ... Who here has heard of Andy's Hobby Headquarters?? ... 

Well ... I'm subscribed to this You Tube Channel ... which I find very useful for Modelling news, In box reviews and build reviews ... not to mention the cool hints and tips. The guy is about my speed - detailed but not overly pedantic. I don't have time to watch all of his videos ... but those I do I always leave a like and a comment for - because with You Tubers, this little action helps them out... Usually it's something uplifting or encouraging.

In this case Andy was giving an overview of the new Border Tiger.I kit ... Like any kit ... from any manufacturer ... I assume that it has it's deficiencies - that's always a given. Quite frankly ... looking at the RFM, Takom, Meng and Border model kits from recent times, I'm staggered at the increased level of detail available ... Compared to the "benchmark" Dragon kits of the late "noughties" there tend to be less sprue and sub assemblies - for pretty much the same result. Add to that Takom's new "Blitz" style of link-and-length track arrangement and a similar thing from Border Model and suddenly you have highly detailed kits that don't take a lot of time to build!

So I left: "We've come a long way since Dragon Tigers!! ... Waiting for this one ..."

Ok Rog ... I hear you say ... I grabbed my popcorn to watch you rant ... where is it?? ...

So ... I think there's one that pops up on every forum at one time or other ... (Radu on LSP for example) ... People who know it ALL ... and are excellent in starting S%$T-fights because they can't resist sticking their nose in to provide you with a correction or some sort of unsolicited advice ... you know the type? ... the ones that think you bought something / are approaching a task a certain way / have a certain viewpoint - only because you lack their superior level of knowledge or wisdom - which they are all to ready to provide you with all while doing their best to remind you of how inferior to them that you are ... and when you try to politely tell them exactly where they can go and shove their superior attitude ... they seem to think that you can't handle a "conversation" with someone who is trying to "help" or that you can't handle "facts" or "truth" ... all the while missing the point of your ire completely.

Well ... Thats what happened with my comment on Andy's ... Some AH who goes by the handle "Davey Byrden" decided that My Opinion was all wrong ... "My Opinion" mind!! 

"Could you explain what direction we've come a "long way" in ? I don't believe you can say this kit is better than a Dragon Tiger kit in every respect. So how are you judging it?"

An innocent enough looking question yeah?? ... Just look at the way its phrased though!! ... Do I mind explaining myself (as if I had the audacity to blaspheme against his Holy Opinion) ... He doesn't believe I can say what I am saying (as if I give a rolling rats rear end!!) ... So he want's to correct my "errors" - but he can't do that without making gross assumptions you see?? - so he starts off here by trying to find out why I look at this kit the way that I do. So ... I'm happy to provide him with my judgement - which is really me just giving him my opinion.

He follows up with exactly what I expected ... trying to lecture me on what my misconceptions were and why my opinion was wrong ... Of course I can't just tell him to go forth and multiply (and believe me I sincerely wanted to!!) and that of course - is when the faeces hit the propulsion device in a big way ... and from the couple of follow up exchanges we had I still can't tell whether he just thought his opinion was right or he didn't get that his approach was all wrong - it was like he was looking for an argument ... of course the result is always the same - he wanted to blame me for his pi$$poor attitude toward someone having a different opinion. I scrolled down and looked through a couple of the negative comments on the vid - and sure enough - this idiot shows up on them agreeing the that kit is poor - but disagreeing as to why ...

I think he got the message though ...

Rog

[Bill_S]

That's exactly why I stick to LSM, Rog.

[Jeff]

3 minutes ago, Bill_S said:

That's exactly why I stick to LSM, Rog.

YUP, me too, Bill ...... I always wonder how I have lived so long with all the 'experts' telling me what I have done wrong or am going to do wrong, I hear your comments loud and clear Rog, and agree fully.....as an example, recently,  I 'had' a good friend who called me a narcissist for buying a RED truck, because he didn't like red ! Go figure ...

[BlrwestSiR]

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

I 'had' a good friend who called me a narcissist for buying a RED truck, because he didn't like red ! Go figure ...

But everyone knows red ones go faster! 

As for the original issue, a lot of times these guys do know a fair bit about their field of expertise but don't know how to communicate it to folks without coming across as an sanctimonious a-hole or worse. Which can be a shame.

Ernie and I talked about this a few years ago and how you appreciate the knowledge some of these guys have but can't stand the personality that comes with it. 

Carl

[HubertB]

7 hours ago, Artful69 said:

So ... Who here has heard of Andy's Hobby Headquarters?? ... 

Well ... I'm subscribed to this You Tube Channel ... which I find very useful for Modelling news, In box reviews and build reviews ... not to mention the cool hints and tips. The guy is about my speed - detailed but not overly pedantic. I don't have time to watch all of his videos ... but those I do I always leave a like and a comment for - because with You Tubers, this little action helps them out... Usually it's something uplifting or encouraging.

In this case Andy was giving an overview of the new Border Tiger.I kit ... Like any kit ... from any manufacturer ... I assume that it has it's deficiencies - that's always a given. Quite frankly ... looking at the RFM, Takom, Meng and Border model kits from recent times, I'm staggered at the increased level of detail available ... Compared to the "benchmark" Dragon kits of the late "noughties" there tend to be less sprue and sub assemblies - for pretty much the same result. Add to that Takom's new "Blitz" style of link-and-length track arrangement and a similar thing from Border Model and suddenly you have highly detailed kits that don't take a lot of time to build!

So I left: "We've come a long way since Dragon Tigers!! ... Waiting for this one ..."

Ok Rog ... I hear you say ... I grabbed my popcorn to watch you rant ... where is it?? ...

So ... I think there's one that pops up on every forum at one time or other ... (Radu on LSP for example) ... People who know it ALL ... and are excellent in starting S%$T-fights because they can't resist sticking their nose in to provide you with a correction or some sort of unsolicited advice ... you know the type? ... the ones that think you bought something / are approaching a task a certain way / have a certain viewpoint - only because you lack their superior level of knowledge or wisdom - which they are all to ready to provide you with all while doing their best to remind you of how inferior to them that you are ... and when you try to politely tell them exactly where they can go and shove their superior attitude ... they seem to think that you can't handle a "conversation" with someone who is trying to "help" or that you can't handle "facts" or "truth" ... all the while missing the point of your ire completely.

Well ... Thats what happened with my comment on Andy's ... Some AH who goes by the handle "Davey Byrden" decided that My Opinion was all wrong ... "My Opinion" mind!! 

"Could you explain what direction we've come a "long way" in ? I don't believe you can say this kit is better than a Dragon Tiger kit in every respect. So how are you judging it?"

An innocent enough looking question yeah?? ... Just look at the way its phrased though!! ... Do I mind explaining myself (as if I had the audacity to blaspheme against his Holy Opinion) ... He doesn't believe I can say what I am saying (as if I give a rolling rats rear end!!) ... So he want's to correct my "errors" - but he can't do that without making gross assumptions you see?? - so he starts off here by trying to find out why I look at this kit the way that I do. So ... I'm happy to provide him with my judgement - which is really me just giving him my opinion.

He follows up with exactly what I expected ... trying to lecture me on what my misconceptions were and why my opinion was wrong ... Of course I can't just tell him to go forth and multiply (and believe me I sincerely wanted to!!) and that of course - is when the faeces hit the propulsion device in a big way ... and from the couple of follow up exchanges we had I still can't tell whether he just thought his opinion was right or he didn't get that his approach was all wrong - it was like he was looking for an argument ... of course the result is always the same - he wanted to blame me for his pi$$poor attitude toward someone having a different opinion. I scrolled down and looked through a couple of the negative comments on the vid - and sure enough - this idiot shows up on them agreeing the that kit is poor - but disagreeing as to why ...

I think he got the message though ...

Rog

 

2 hours ago, Bill_S said:

That's exactly why I stick to LSM, Rog.

 

2 hours ago, Jeff said:

YUP, me too, Bill ...... I always wonder how I have lived so long with all the 'experts' telling me what I have done wrong or am going to do wrong, I hear your comments loud and clear Rog, and agree fully.....as an example, recently,  I 'had' a good friend who called me a narcissist for buying a RED truck, because he didn't like red ! Go figure ...

 

23 minutes ago, BlrwestSiR said:

But everyone knows red ones go faster! 

As for the original issue, a lot of times these guys do know a fair bit about their field of expertise but don't know how to communicate it to folks without coming across as an sanctimonious a-hole or worse. Which can be a shame.

Ernie and I talked about this a few years ago and how you appreciate the knowledge some of these guys have but can't stand the personality that comes with it. 

Carl

And based on what expertise do you guys dare to criticise people who have a real knowledge in a field where you are obviously just amateurs (especially red) ?

Let me start by telling you how wrong you are ...  ... and then ... 

Hubert the omniscient know-it-all (and more)

[Jeff]

39 minutes ago, BlrwestSiR said:

But everyone knows red ones go faster! 

As for the original issue, a lot of times these guys do know a fair bit about their field of expertise but don't know how to communicate it to folks without coming across as an sanctimonious a-hole or worse. Which can be a shame.

Ernie and I talked about this a few years ago and how you appreciate the knowledge some of these guys have but can't stand the personality that comes with it. 

Carl

Yes, red is a go fast color !!  and maybe all of the criticisms are in the delivery? If it is delivered respectfully, rather than sanctimoniously, that might be the difference?   Just throwing that out there for discussion

[Bomber_County]

Rog, life is to short to suffer fools gladly. I always remember, returning to the hobby after a couple of decades. Also my first ever Telford. So I buy the SH Tempest........walking back to the car, this “person” says, that nose is all wrong that you know etc etc........he was told and go and #####

[BlrwestSiR]

5 hours ago, Jeff said:

Yes, red is a go fast color !!  and maybe all of the criticisms are in the delivery? If it is delivered respectfully, rather than sanctimoniously, that might be the difference?   Just throwing that out there for discussion

I think that's exactly it so much of the time. The tone ends up outweighing the info and people get their backs up. Which is a shame when we're all just trying to enjoy our hobby.

[krow113]

Its whether the receiver chooses to be offended.

In my experience no amount of sugar coating will smooth the delivery.

Here where I live there are peeps poised , catlike, ready to misinterpret , misdirect , obfuscate the truth and redefine even the slightest comment , as long as it is as far from the truth as they can get.

And never into a positive arena , always into the negative.

And shying away from accepting responsibility for their 'input' , with one of the stupidest comments ever heard by me;

"You brought it on yourself"

Anyone using this phrase needs to be avoided at all costs.

lol

 

[Artful69]

8 hours ago, BlrwestSiR said:

As for the original issue, a lot of times these guys do know a fair bit about their field of expertise but don't know how to communicate it to folks without coming across as an sanctimonious a-hole or worse. Which can be a shame.

Ernie and I talked about this a few years ago and how you appreciate the knowledge some of these guys have but can't stand the personality that comes with it. 

Carl

 

7 hours ago, Jeff said:

... and maybe all of the criticisms are in the delivery? If it is delivered respectfully, rather than sanctimoniously, that might be the difference?   Just throwing that out there for discussion

 

4 hours ago, Bomber_County said:

Rog, life is to short to suffer fools gladly. I always remember, returning to the hobby after a couple of decades. Also my first ever Telford. So I buy the SH Tempest........walking back to the car, this “person” says, that nose is all wrong that you know etc etc........he was told and go and #####

 

... And that was my point lads ... His initial question could seem innocent enough - as in "Why do you have the opinion that you do?"

Under those conditions if he'd have come back to my reasoning with "fair enough ... just be mindful that the kit does have a few accuracy flaws when compared with other kits (like the Dragon or RFM) - if you have a particular subject in mind that you need any help with, hit me up - I have plenty of resource material on the subject" ... I would have been all ears! ... It was the wording that had me on alert - Though initially I played along and supplied him with the "opinion" that he asked for.

Unfortunately his narcissistic personality came to the fore all to quickly ... He may have been right in some of his factual analysis on kit accuracy issues and lets face it - in modelling everyone has their own degree of meticulous attention to detail - and I'll never knock anyone for being more focused on a particular set of details than me. I used to be particularly OCD with my daily routine and discipline ... But when someone expects everyone to pay attention to their logic and reasoning, while dismissing everyone else as "out of their depth" or some other vaguely veiled put down ... it's time to flip the bird!

This guy alluded to me being "offended" (which I wasn't - I was actually laughing my ar$e off as I typed my responses) at him "sharing information that I didn't have" and this next bit which was really too rich  

"You seem to be "offended" that someone else's opinion could be "superior" (your word, I didn't say it). Well, my friend, that's life. That is why you pay for a doctor's opniion, or a lawyer's opinion. They know things."

I mean ... REALLY?!?!? ... He's a professional what? Tiger.I Model Connoisseur?? If you need to know anything about Tigers - here's my card, give me a call??

Annnnnnnnnnnyyyyyy-way ... moving on!

** And just so you lot know ... occasionally I do, in fact, solicit advice from our community ... sometimes by asking direct questions ... other times indirectly ... commentary and advice are always welcome - its appreciated that people will take time to offer a response, share their experience, knowledge etc and share references ... for THAT I am grateful **

Rog

 

 

[GazzaS]

23 hours ago, Artful69 said:

So ... Who here has heard of Andy's Hobby Headquarters?? ... 

Well ... I'm subscribed to this You Tube Channel ... which I find very useful for Modelling news, In box reviews and build reviews ... not to mention the cool hints and tips. The guy is about my speed - detailed but not overly pedantic. I don't have time to watch all of his videos ... but those I do I always leave a like and a comment for - because with You Tubers, this little action helps them out... Usually it's something uplifting or encouraging.

In this case Andy was giving an overview of the new Border Tiger.I kit ... Like any kit ... from any manufacturer ... I assume that it has it's deficiencies - that's always a given. Quite frankly ... looking at the RFM, Takom, Meng and Border model kits from recent times, I'm staggered at the increased level of detail available ... Compared to the "benchmark" Dragon kits of the late "noughties" there tend to be less sprue and sub assemblies - for pretty much the same result. Add to that Takom's new "Blitz" style of link-and-length track arrangement and a similar thing from Border Model and suddenly you have highly detailed kits that don't take a lot of time to build!

So I left: "We've come a long way since Dragon Tigers!! ... Waiting for this one ..."

Ok Rog ... I hear you say ... I grabbed my popcorn to watch you rant ... where is it?? ...

So ... I think there's one that pops up on every forum at one time or other ... (Radu on LSP for example) ... People who know it ALL ... and are excellent in starting S%$T-fights because they can't resist sticking their nose in to provide you with a correction or some sort of unsolicited advice ... you know the type? ... the ones that think you bought something / are approaching a task a certain way / have a certain viewpoint - only because you lack their superior level of knowledge or wisdom - which they are all to ready to provide you with all while doing their best to remind you of how inferior to them that you are ... and when you try to politely tell them exactly where they can go and shove their superior attitude ... they seem to think that you can't handle a "conversation" with someone who is trying to "help" or that you can't handle "facts" or "truth" ... all the while missing the point of your ire completely.

Well ... Thats what happened with my comment on Andy's ... Some AH who goes by the handle "Davey Byrden" decided that My Opinion was all wrong ... "My Opinion" mind!! 

"Could you explain what direction we've come a "long way" in ? I don't believe you can say this kit is better than a Dragon Tiger kit in every respect. So how are you judging it?"

An innocent enough looking question yeah?? ... Just look at the way its phrased though!! ... Do I mind explaining myself (as if I had the audacity to blaspheme against his Holy Opinion) ... He doesn't believe I can say what I am saying (as if I give a rolling rats rear end!!) ... So he want's to correct my "errors" - but he can't do that without making gross assumptions you see?? - so he starts off here by trying to find out why I look at this kit the way that I do. So ... I'm happy to provide him with my judgement - which is really me just giving him my opinion.

He follows up with exactly what I expected ... trying to lecture me on what my misconceptions were and why my opinion was wrong ... Of course I can't just tell him to go forth and multiply (and believe me I sincerely wanted to!!) and that of course - is when the faeces hit the propulsion device in a big way ... and from the couple of follow up exchanges we had I still can't tell whether he just thought his opinion was right or he didn't get that his approach was all wrong - it was like he was looking for an argument ... of course the result is always the same - he wanted to blame me for his pi$$poor attitude toward someone having a different opinion. I scrolled down and looked through a couple of the negative comments on the vid - and sure enough - this idiot shows up on them agreeing the that kit is poor - but disagreeing as to why ...

I think he got the message though ...

Rog

Hah!  I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who has had differences of opinion with Mr. Byrden.  The poor lad...  he has been given so many accolades that he believes himself to be the lord and master of all Tiger tank knowledge.   I will admit that he knows a lot.  And has even provided information on his tiger I Info. site that I have used for a model or two.

 

What I cited as anecdotal evidence, he cited as the demented ravings of an old man...  who just happened to command a Tiger I.  Just because he never saw a photo that he agreed with.

 

Anyway...  have a beer! 

 

 

 

 

[The Dude]

Well you can tell the guy that he has pretty good computer skills for being in his late '90's. Marvel him for being next to the real thing in Germany/Europe in 1944 and had time to study or measure out the tank in detail while he was there and record the markings/color/options/etc for posterity. Problem is that most of the folks that used most of the subject matter we build in miniature from past wars didn't care what it looked like or the color or the dimensions of it. The only thing 99% cared about was that their equipment kept them alive to let them go home one day.