Duchess of Kingston - Beauty of the Seas - Wooden Sailing Ship 1/64

[Clunkmeister]

5 hours ago, DocRob said:

Your first planking looks like a perfect base layer Ernie. To help with the second planking's width of the planks (tapering), I measured the to plank length over each spar and had an approximate for the necessary tapering. For training purposes, I tried that with the first planking. I first thought, beveling and tapering will be very time consuming, but it wasn't that bad and I didn't made a science out of it, only trying to have a nice and symmetrical planked hull. There is not so much planked area to be seen, with the copper sheating, where the much harder to plank lower part of the hull is covered.

Cheers Rob

And the good news for me is that I only need to be perfect down to the waterline. After that, I can do whatever, as long as it’s smooth.  
I had that second planking close to finished, but I could see the ends starting to be too ide and not follow the flow. Some guys on MSW said I should have started tapering the second planking by the second plank below the main wale. I went 4 before I did, and that calf gt up to me when the bow and stern swooped under. 
What I WILL do this time is fill the small surface irregularities with my first planking.  That’ll help.  You’ve given me the bug again, and now I gotta get cracking’ on. 

[DocRob]

1 hour ago, Clunkmeister said:

And the good news for me is that I only need to be perfect down to the waterline. After that, I can do whatever, as long as it’s smooth.  
I had that second planking close to finished, but I could see the ends starting to be too ide and not follow the flow. Some guys on MSW said I should have started tapering the second planking by the second plank below the main wale. I went 4 before I did, and that calf gt up to me when the bow and stern swooped under. 
What I WILL do this time is fill the small surface irregularities with my first planking.  That’ll help.  You’ve given me the bug again, and now I gotta get cracking’ on.

Measure the plank area on the spars on the plans Ernie, this way you know, if there are 20 planks on the widest spar, you can easily get the ratio for any given spar. Then you know, where to taper. 
I applied two or three full planks as well, before starting to taper.
When sanding the second layer of planking, be careful not to sand to much, I have a paper thin part, where the bulwark meets the planks, close shave.
I collected the sanding dust from the second planking and mixed my own filler with thinned white glue, to have the right color.

Cheers Rob  

[Clunkmeister]

14 hours ago, DocRob said:

Measure the plank area on the spars on the plans Ernie, this way you know, if there are 20 planks on the widest spar, you can easily get the ratio for any given spar. Then you know, where to taper. 
I applied two or three full planks as well, before starting to taper.
When sanding the second layer of planking, be careful not to sand to much, I have a paper thin part, where the bulwark meets the planks, close shave.
I collected the sanding dust from the second planking and mixed my own filler with thinned white glue, to have the right color.

Cheers Rob  

Tricks like that are what I need to hear. I’m not a woodworker like you or Bigg Tim.  You know all the little tricks that apply. All the wooden boat models I built previously had R/C gear and internal combustion engines in them.  Built to run and run hard, not display. 

[HubertB]

3 hours ago, Clunkmeister said:

Tricks like that are what I need to hear. I’m not a woodworker like you or Bigg Tim.  You know all the little tricks that apply. All the wooden boat models I built previously had R/C gear and internal combustion engines in them.  Built to run and run hard, not display. 

To do it easily, apply some tape on each bulkhead, from the keel to the bulwark end. When laid flat on a piece of cutting mat, you will have the exact length, bulkhead by bulkhead to be covered by planks. Setting the tapes on you mat at the same interval as on the kit will give you the taper for each plank, from its maximum to its thinnest.

HTH

Hubert

[DocRob]

Finally I was able to continue a bit with the DoK. I'm waiting for my Proxxon mini mill to materialize, which will make it easier to get the square parts out of te mast dowels.

I prepared the strops, which are made from a PE frame with a pear wood deadeye inserted. That was easy for the smaller variant, but included quite some bending for the larger ones. Naturally, the pre painted PE parts took some damage while bending and needed to be touched up.

Next were the mast platforms, which are pre cut pear wood, along with some support framing to be glued together. Alignment of the pre cut holes is most important here.

Cheers Rob

[Peterpools]

Rob

WOW, you're back and rolling. The strops look so good and I'm willing to bet you found a couple of John's cuss words during their construction. Mast platforms also look right on the money and nice to see everything aligned so well.

 

[DocRob]

9 hours ago, Peterpools said:

WOW, you're back and rolling. The strops look so good and I'm willing to bet you found a couple of John's cuss words during their construction. Mast platforms also look right on the money and nice to see everything aligned so well.

Thank you Peter and nope, I wasn't cussing at all, albeit the fiddly work. I had to find a proper way to bend the PE parts, to accept the deadeyes, but after the first two or three, I had a routine established.

Cheers Rob

[DocRob]

I added the strops to the hull, not before thinking about a proper method to align them correctly. I took some 6 mm wide Kabuki tape and adhered it to the side plan, marking the placement of the chainplates drilling holes with a pencil. With drawing the pencil lines across the Kabuki tape, I could use my template for both sides.

I then drilled 0,5 mm holes into the hull at the marked positions, after I checked the angles of the chainplates with a metal ruler to the place, where the mast platforms will be. Then I pushed in the supplied brass nails without glue, but I don't think there is any need for gluing.

Guess what, while checking the angles of the chainplates for the mizzen mast, I found, that they perfectly match my mizzen mast rake, which I found to be to far aft angled. Now that everything aligns with these angle, I may consider leaving the mizzen mast angle untouched.

Cheers Rob

[Peterpools]

Rob

Remarkable work and she is looking OH so Good. Reading through your description of your update, it's almost in a foreign language and yet I have no problems following and understanding your every step.

 

 

[mark31]

What can i say just wonderfull work

[DocRob]

2 hours ago, Peterpools said:

Remarkable work and she is looking OH so Good. Reading through your description of your update, it's almost in a foreign language and yet I have no problems following and understanding your every step

 

58 minutes ago, mark31 said:

What can i say just wonderfull work

Thank you Peter and Mark, it is indeed a foreign language, which I only partly have knowledge of. For me it's more a foreign foreign language, as English is not my mother tongue. I know a bit, but not all about the maritime terminology and if I can make myself understandable, that's terrific and the good manual of the DoK helps a lot.

Cheers Rob

[HubertB]

9 hours ago, DocRob said:

I added the strops to the hull, not before thinking about a proper method to align them correctly. I took some 6 mm wide Kabuki tape and adhered it to the side plan, marking the placement of the chainplates drilling holes with a pencil. With drawing the pencil lines across the Kabuki tape, I could use my template for both sides.

I then drilled 0,5 mm holes into the hull at the marked positions, after I checked the angles of the chainplates with a metal ruler to the place, where the mast platforms will be. Then I pushed in the supplied brass nails without glue, but I don't think there is any need for gluing.

Guess what, while checking the angles of the chainplates for the mizzen mast, I found, that they perfectly match my mizzen mast rake, which I found to be to far aft angled. Now that everything aligns with these angle, I may consider leaving the mizzen mast angle untouched.

Cheers Rob

In your third pic, the spacing between the 3 chainplates is not even …

Besides this (admittedly totally nitpicking ) comment, this looks great 👍 !

Hubert

[DocRob]

3 hours ago, HubertB said:

In your third pic, the spacing between the 3 chainplates is not even …

Besides this (admittedly totally nitpicking ) comment, this looks great 👍 !

That's made with purpose eagle eye Hubert , the two larger deadeyes are connecting the shrouds to the lower platform, the smaller one to the upper platform. The minimal difference between the two large ones is due to clumsiness of the builder .

Cheers Rob

[GazzaS]

The DOK is looking awesome, Rob!  Each detail looks nice an crisp.

From another thread...  I saw you got new parts for your Proxxon mini lathe.  Will this enable you to turn metal?

[DocRob]

Thanks Gary, with the lathe there is no way to work seriously with metals. I bought the chuck only for more flexibility and because the supplied collets were of dismal quality. The drill chuck for the tailstock will enable me to drill center holes in round parts, maybe even brass and aluminum, that's all. There is no real possibility to fix the cutting tools, because with wood, you work free handed only with a adjustable tool rest.
 
The weakest solution from the Proxxon range to work with metals would be this one 
PROXXON - FD 150/E, but it's very small and doesn't offer the power (torque) and has other limitations.
Better would be this one PROXXON - PD 250/E which also offers a thread cutting device, which to me disqualifies the smaller one by it's absence.

I ordered a Proxxon mini mill along with a steel vice and a dividing head. I will use it primarily for wood working, maybe some very small and simple brass working too.

I learned to work with metals as an engineer and to do it properly, you will have to amount a lot of knowledge, machines and extras. For me it's do it right or leave it alone, in this case, it's to expensive for me to do it right for the rare occasions, where I need it. 

Sometimes, I think about building working steam machines, but that would need some serious update with the machinery.

Cheers Rob

 

[HubertB]

On 6/26/2022 at 10:12 AM, DocRob said:

Thanks Gary, with the lathe there is no way to work seriously with metals. I bought the chuck only for more flexibility and because the supplied collets were of dismal quality. The drill chuck for the tailstock will enable me to drill center holes in round parts, maybe even brass and aluminum, that's all. There is no real possibility to fix the cutting tools, because with wood, you work free handed only with a adjustable tool rest.
 
The weakest solution from the Proxxon range to work with metals would be this one 
PROXXON - FD 150/E, but it's very small and doesn't offer the power (torque) and has other limitations.
Better would be this one PROXXON - PD 250/E which also offers a thread cutting device, which to me disqualifies the smaller one by it's absence.

I ordered a Proxxon mini mill along with a steel vice and a dividing head. I will use it primarily for wood working, maybe some very small and simple brass working too.

I learned to work with metals as an engineer and to do it properly, you will have to amount a lot of knowledge, machines and extras. For me it's do it right or leave it alone, in this case, it's to expensive for me to do it right for the rare occasions, where I need it. 

Sometimes, I think about building working steam machines, but that would need some serious update with the machinery.

Cheers Rob

 

I found out quickly that, for almost the same budget as a Proxxon machine, I could get some real metal machining lathes or mills, Made in China.

The lathe I bought has, surprisingly for the budget, a really very very small concentric error … And it can even handle steel …

Hubert

PS edit: what I mean by "very very small" is about 15 micrometer concentric error. Not bad for a less than 1 000 € lathe. And good enough for any modelling purpose ...

[DocRob]

20 minutes ago, HubertB said:

I found out quickly that, for almost the same budget as a Proxxon machine, I could get some real metal machining lathes or mills, Made in China.

The lathe I bought has, surprisingly for the budget, a really very very small concentric error … And it can even handle steel …

Lucky you Hubert. The Proxxons were only exemplary and there are lots of manufacturers for every purpose and purse around. But not so many with small relatively precise machines. Of course they are not perfectly made and even the larger Proxxon's are not the most durable of machines. They fill a gap though, for modelers like me, with the occasional metal job, some woodwork and confined space. A niche product.

Cheers Rob

[GazzaS]

Thank you for your thoughts on lathes.  I appreciate all the work you went through.  I have had plans to build some larger scale warships from scratch for over 35 years.  But gun barrels masts and other tapered metal things have always been the weak link.  I've tried...   but imperfect guns just kill any project.

 

[DocRob]

10 hours ago, GazzaS said:

Thank you for your thoughts on lathes.  I appreciate all the work you went through.  I have had plans to build some larger scale warships from scratch for over 35 years.  But gun barrels masts and other tapered metal things have always been the weak link.  I've tried...   but imperfect guns just kill any project.

I'm no expert, but starting with 3D printing might be the cheaper solution then. Aren't we all experts in letting plastic look like metal.

Cheers Rob

[KevinM]

i am with you on the work of the deadeyes Rob I got into groove as you say when building up mine for the SS America which I really need to get back to ......one day.Keep it rolling looking really good.

[DocRob]

On 6/29/2022 at 2:52 PM, KevinM said:

i am with you on the work of the deadeyes Rob I got into groove as you say when building up mine for the SS America which I really need to get back to ......one day.Keep it rolling looking really good.

Thank you Kevin, it would be great to see some pics of your SS America, ready or not.

Cheers Rob

[DocRob]

Puh, it was a long, but busy time since the last update, but in the moment our houses interior get painted and that causes a lot of work and distraction from modelling.

The other obstacle is more modelling related and is about learning, how to work best with the lathe and the mill, something I never tried before, at least with wood.
I prepared all the yards on the lathe either with chisels or sanding paper to their designated conical shape.

 

Then it was time to turn the mast tops on the lathe, which have a bit more complicated shape. The Kirschen chisels I bought, seemed a bit big for the mini lathe, but they are sharp and of good quality and did the job.

Now it was time to start with the lathe onto the mast parts. These are mostly slightly conical and have flattened and/or squared ends in different sizes in the area of the mastheads. I started with the relatively simple mizzen mast to establish a good workflow and have now prepared the mizzen mast parts completely.

While working on the lower part of the main mast, disaster struck. The flattened parts were milled with the dividing head and then I made the 5 mm square part, which worked great on three sides, thanks to the dividing head. On the fourth side, somehow the cutting tool went too deep into the material, which was difficult to see for me. I can't explain, why that happened as the tool was fixed, as was the mast chucked.
I stopped where I was and filed the part to 3 mm depth and decided to add a 2 mm strip as a substitute and glued it on. I hope this will hold up on the lathe, where I have to turn some millimeters round on the end of the square part.

Not perfectly square 

 

Resquared 

Cheers Rob

[Martinnfb]

Masterful 

[Peterpools]

Rob

Amazing work and learning to be a machinist during construction - modeling tools and skills I never thought about. Seems you've entered a new world of skills and language.

 

[DocRob]

12 hours ago, Martinnfb said:

Masterful 

 

8 hours ago, Peterpools said:

Amazing work and learning to be a machinist during construction - modeling tools and skills I never thought about. Seems you've entered a new world of skills and language.

Thank you Gentlemen, it's not only a new language, it's a delicate process of learning and re-learning. When I was young, I was an engineer for Scientific institutes, working with all kind of machinery on a very advanced level, but this is different. First off all, it's wood and second, as it's cave work, it's not about all around professional equipment, it's about how to achieve things, with what's there.
It's a time consuming process and even with proper preparation not error free (I still have no idea what happened to my square on my mill )

Cheers Rob