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NigelR32

HK Models 1/32 Lancaster Hints, Tweaks and Tips,

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Hi Everyone,

I thought I'd start a new thread much in line with Ernies thread on the B-24, regarding the HKM Lanc.

Please post here your hints tips and tweaks for this model. There are already some great reviews out there on this model, some of which have pointed out some omissions and issues, but thankfully these all seem to be related to internal areas, so, at last we may well have a kit which at least has correct external shape.

I would like Cees to jump in here and add a list of his known issues with the model, so if the mods can jump his reply to post #2 I would be grateful.

I already have a couple of issues and omissions up my sleeve, all of which will be simple scratch building additions and simple modelling work arounds, but I'm going to keep these close to my chest until Cees has popped in.

 

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I've pinned this topic.

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Hello all. I have a build log over at Britmodeller towers, as well as following this. My first mod was to shorten the pilot's seat pan (easy) and also its suspension frame (harder!) Finally I removed the leather base from the seat back as apparently the real thing is just a bucket: the pilot sat on his parachute. 

 

IMG_20190103_211222.jpg

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19 minutes ago, ChaoticMike said:

Hello all. I have a build log over at Britmodeller towers, as well as following this. My first mod was to shorten the pilot's seat pan (easy) and also its suspension frame (harder!) Finally I removed the leather base from the seat back as apparently the real thing is just a bucket: the pilot sat on his parachute. 

 

IMG_20190103_211222.jpg

Nice work Mike,

That is exactly what I've been looking at this morning. This is what I've come up with.. do you agree?

Kit vs Actual..

Seat Pan   +4.5mm too long

Seat pan height   +1.5mm too high Plus floor is 2.5mm too high

Armour plate -3mm too short

In my opinion, the front edge of the seat is in the correct position relative to the IP, so the shortening of the seat pan will pull the seat back forward toward the IP. looking at side on pics of the Lanc it is clear the seat is too high and far back relative to the canopy framing.

EDIT:- Just looked at your thread. You'll see what I mean regarding seat position relative to canopy framing/sill in post #60, first pic.

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I have seen on photographs and Nige's video review of the flaps that they are in-complete ??

That is to say that if you look (if you have the kit) there are circles that are cut out to lessen the weight on the actual aircraft but the kit flap(s) has at least 3-6 'missing'.

They have not been molded ??

If somebody can post the photo of the flap(s) then others will perhaps understand what I am referring to . . . .

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22 minutes ago, FME erk said:

I have seen on photographs and Nige's video review of the flaps that they are in-complete ??

That is to say that if you look (if you have the kit) there are circles that are cut out to lessen the weight on the actual aircraft but the kit flap(s) has at least 3-6 'missing'.

They have not been molded ??

If somebody can post the photo of the flap(s) then others will perhaps understand what I am referring to . . . .

Here is a nice image borrowed from Google, of the real thing.. for information only..

flaps.jpg.7e6f43eeef96985ce71c7a1e48ef7e17.jpg

Here are the kit flaps... with missing holes as pointed out by FME erk..

flaps.thumb.jpg.7c6912771ea011f13f861fc14fa48705.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I guess this will make people want Eduard to step in even more?? Failing that, make some replacement strips and carve the kit plastic away. Failing that, build the model flaps up? Not sure if that would be accurate though?

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So guys, I suppose I've put it out there now, so I need to show you what I'm going to do about it.

Some of you will think I'm crazy, but here goes anyway. You'll see that I enjoy the jigging and engineering side of things as much as I enjoy doing the mods..:D

Here we can see the seat is too high compared to the cockpit wall, or lower edge of the canopy.

1208039750_Seat2.thumb.jpg.b62dcea333ed2472e7c3c68626b9f8a3.jpg

1818452403_Seat1.thumb.jpg.0460450b20f9aa901846e248ed793c74.jpg

So, to start, we need to identify that the seat base is around 1.5mm too tall. A section needs to be planned and removed.

Here I've taped the area to be cut out using 1mm tape. (Remember the saw blade is 0.25mm thick so theres my 0.5mm). On the left we can see the quick little jig knocked up enable the seat to be clamped into the vice for cutting. I believe if you want a successful straight and controlled cut, first you must hold what you want to cut.

1478826286_Seatjigs.thumb.jpg.5c5a716111eea3296f6e017f6a2e4657.jpg

Like this...

433188008_Seatjigs1.thumb.jpg.26ae45920c2433e740f953ca56cdf078.jpg

And now.. it's too late to change my mind. 

303015988_Seatcutup.thumb.jpg.1bba190e6cc422acd718985835fdd725.jpg

Next we need to look at moving the mounts and shortening the length.

Thanks for looking...

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Is the seat too tall, or is it the platform that's too high? I might have cut 1.5 mm off the platform...

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51 minutes ago, Bill_S said:

Is the seat too tall, or is it the platform that's too high? I might have cut 1.5 mm off the platform...

That was my thought Bill.....good idea to have a tricks and tweaks thread......

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Think I would be inclined to do that to reduce the overall height but I personally think the seat leans back to far  . . .

The flaps I will have a think about B4 offering any suggestion(s) . . .  thanks for the photos Nige

David

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Hey guys, thanks for posting. 

The seat is 1.5mm too high, the platform is 2.5mm too high. If I was a more sensible Man I would have removed most of the seat support and leave the floor well alone, but, unfortunately I am crazy!!

I reckon the width of the seat is OK, but the armour is 3mm too short. If you look at a pic of the armour folded down, the tip of the radius, now on the bottom, is nearly level with the bottom of the seat.

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2 minutes ago, FME erk said:

Think I would be inclined to do that to reduce the overall height but I personally think the seat leans back to far  . . .

The flaps I will have a think about B4 offering any suggestion(s) . . .  thanks for the photos Nige

David

Hey David,

I have been looking at this nearly all day, and believe me it is driving me crazy. :wacko:

The seat angle is actually spot on in my opinion. It is also the correct height from the base to the armour..

Obviously, I am expressing my opinion and I am not an expert.

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Great thread. I have a couple of observations and questions as I've just been working on my build.  I've sorted the seat length by cheating, I inserted plastic card between the seat back and cushion, moving the seat back forward and making the seat pan visually shorter. In most pictures I can find the seat cushion is present, I'm guessing as these are of restored aircraft and the crew no longer fly with parachutes ? I did find a photo of a recovered aircraft that seemed to indicate that the seat base is not flat but is scooped in the middle of it. The kit is also missing the prominent pipework behind the seat that attaches to what I think is the undercarriage control lever. I used wire to represent this.  In some of the pictures I've found there is a small container behind the pilots seat (ribbed with mesh) which appears empty in some pictures and holds a bottle in others. Anyone know what these are ? Finally, a lot of the pictures I've been looking at show different interior colours - some all green, some all black and some green and black mixed (as per instructions).  Anybody know what the actual colours were at time of production - I suspect I've been looking at restored aircraft. 

 

 

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The 'wire container' is provided to hold a Oxygen bottle. There are several around the aircraft.

Usual standard colour for early Lancasters (on the production line as Manchesters) were green interior with black in the nose whereas later Lancaster 's appear to have black at the front (Nose & Cockpit) and then green aft of the main spar.

I hope this helps

David

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thanks David, that does, I prefer the look of the black interior (it hides my rubbish building/painting abilities !). Now need to work out how to make those wire small containers.

 

regards

neil

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I tried the mesh from a cheap sieve from a discount store. A bit of a bum to glue in such a tight circle but I dare say Eduard will some day produce these it etch ??

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Hey guys, you probably wondered where I'd gone... OK, you hadn't even noticed..:(

Anyway.. I've been really busy on tweaking.. yes, tweaking. The pilots seat is, I believe, a lot more like the real thing now.

Note seat is now lower in relation to fuselage side, but is still too high overall as the floor needs to be shortened and get lowered.

2068013116_seatfinished.thumb.jpg.e964f769daf8b761fcc871a3ad152160.jpg

I have gone crazy doing this.. I've built and rebuilt the bloody thing about three times, having noticed that I'd done one bit wrong, then redone it only to find I had it right in the first place!!

1359828416_seatfinishedfront.thumb.jpg.07ab58298754e1d6b1be61a23896fc1c.jpg

The harness mount with the QR cable needs to be finished, but I cant find a picture that realy shows how it should look.. perhaps someone can help. I think the right side block will go and get replaced by a round piece and the left, port side block needs to be cut into two "blades"? Note the hole and patch in the seat base. Someone here mentioned this, which got me looking closer for it. (Armrests are not yet glued into position.

623619583_seatfinishedback.thumb.jpg.15b903a807378d637e3d9a9e65a70b9f.jpg

Adding the holed structure in the back was fun, note the gussets in the corners.

My scratch building isn't the best, but I got there in the end. I think all that is used from the kit is the back cushion and side frames. Now.. I need to finish it off and remove the rough edges and get some primer on it.. asfter i've sorted the harness mount of course.

 

Thanks for looking.

 

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Ohhh, wow!   This is why I love this stuff.

Nige, you’re insane! And I say that with the deepest respect and admiration. And Erk, you’re not far behind.  You guys don’t stop till it’s perfect, then show the rest of us the way. The pilots seat is such a small part of, yet such a huge visual cue to the entire ‘big picture’. 

Like your previous B-17 work, Nige you’re conducting a genuine clinic here.

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Thanks for the compliments and likes guys..

 

Well, I found a picture of the seat belt QR mechanism and corrected my corrective work..

41467194_Seatcorrected.thumb.jpg.f4cc81b2a754903774818acfc9f5e2e9.jpg

The harness shoulder straps will loop around the horizontal bar, which, once the cable is pulled releases from the block behind it.

I'm not really sure why they did this? Surely the shoulder straps would be clipped into the waist straps, so one would need to unclip them anyway?

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I like what you have done to the seat and particular the armour plate.

That is so visible as you look into the cockpit and now you have replaced the original and reshaped it, it looks great. Well done Nige

I always thought the shoulder straps were anchored at the top of the seat and there was a quick release block that sat in the pilots belly and also this is where the lap belt straps came together in the block. I seemed to remember you twisted it anti-clock, hit it central and it released all the straps . . . .

I am looking forward to more

David

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Thanks guys, your compliments are gratefully received.

I'm looking at the floor and the engine controls "gearbox" now, which is the area of floor which protrudes into the bomb aimers area. Inside this "lump" there are many chains and chainwheels that transmitted mechanical movements for prop feathering and throttles etc back to the main spar and then left and right from there.

The box that the seat sits on is not quite right, so I'll be cutting that up and starting again.

Tell me guys, is this the right place to post this or should it be in a WIP thread?

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I’d say this is the right place. It’s “tweaks and tips”, and you’re tweaking the kit while giving us tips on the little issues. :)

There’s a real nice Lanc in the box, but you’re making it into a masterpiece. 

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