Administrators Clunkmeister Posted October 16, 2020 Author Administrators Share Posted October 16, 2020 A clue to the cockpit layout is shown at the museum display of a crash scene at a museum in Alberta. We see a SINGLE basic leather pilot seat atop the engine oil tank, footboards like a Gladiator, Hurricane, Stearman, T-6, and PZL.11, and the elevator actuator tube out the sides of the fuselage for the elevator cables. But no sign of a wheel, yoke, or stick, though. Drat! 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Clunkmeister Posted October 16, 2020 Author Administrators Share Posted October 16, 2020 One other thing we see is that as expected, aviation is evolutionary in nature, not revolutionary. These Fokkers have advanced greatly since the Dr.1, D.Vll, and D.Vlll were knocking Allied airplanes from the sky over Belgium, but not so much as to be unrecognizable as Fokkers. Tony Fokker and Robert Noorduyn absolutely OWNED the commercial airliner market in 1929. Ford was a far distant second place. Fokker Trimotors would carry more, fly farther, more economically, and easily run and hide from the draggy old Fords. Not until the early 30s wooden wing failures on trimotors due to improper storage and care by the users did the metal Fords gain any decent following. It also led to the development of purpose built metal airliners from Boeing, the Model 247, and Douglas, the DC-1, 2, and 3. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HubertB Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Clunkmeister said: So am I to assume that the channel to the left of the hand pump is the stick? I have no clue if I’m dealing with a wheel, a yoke, or a stick.... And if it’s a stick, it sure seems like it’s set up for single pilot operation, with a pilot sitting dead center. Yes, it was definitely a one-man operation. I am surprised to see a stick rather than a yoke, but then it is somewhat reminiscent of the D-VII arrangement ... Hubert 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Clunkmeister Posted October 16, 2020 Author Administrators Share Posted October 16, 2020 5 hours ago, HubertB said: Yes, it was definitely a one-man operation. I am surprised to see a stick rather than a yoke, but then it is somewhat reminiscent of the D-VII arrangement ... Hubert Me too, Hubert. The F.10 used a full wheel, and it was of a similar vintage. And a wheel would certainly have been beneficial. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber_County Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 This is a history lesson in its self, taking a pew to watch this one........ 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Clunkmeister Posted October 16, 2020 Author Administrators Share Posted October 16, 2020 4 hours ago, Bomber_County said: This is a history lesson in its self, taking a pew to watch this one........ Phil, I certainly get passionate about the models I really, really want to build. Unique subjects, overlooked aircraft types, and subjects that had an impact in my life are those types. A regular 109 or Spitfire doesn't do it for me, but this, a Fairchild 71C, Seafang, Bristol Freighter, all unique subjects that light my fire. A Blackburn Buccaneer and a Hawker Henley can get my juices flowing as well. But I also hear the big Fokker F.10 calling as well. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GusMac Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Nice pics Ernie. Very Art Deco! As you say I can't imagine they lasted long like that before becoming a bit more 'functional'! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Clunkmeister Posted October 16, 2020 Author Administrators Share Posted October 16, 2020 1 hour ago, GusMac said: Nice pics Ernie. Very Art Deco! As you say I can't imagine they lasted long like that before becoming a bit more 'functional'! My guess would be about 5 minutes after delivery to the customer. I can see that fancy upholstery getting yanked and plywood benches with ropes for seatbelts bolted to the floor. Plus fake woodgrain panels for the sidewalls. I'd almost put money on there being more than one northern home with some oddball art deco wicker basket chairs inside that nobody has a clue about where they came from. Who knows, they might end up on the television, featured on "Antique Roadshow" someday. But with history telling us how much of a penny pincher Tony Fokker was, maybe he sold these things to the Northlanders for a $10.00 discount without the fancy fabrics. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GusMac Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Too true Ernie! Didn't realise you'd an Antiques Roadshow programme over in the US as well. Not really a show I watched here but my parents were obsessed by it. I think mainly to see if anything looked like some of the old crap they had, to see if they could cash in! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Clunkmeister Posted October 17, 2020 Author Administrators Share Posted October 17, 2020 23 hours ago, GusMac said: Too true Ernie! Didn't realise you'd an Antiques Roadshow programme over in the US as well. Not really a show I watched here but my parents were obsessed by it. I think mainly to see if anything looked like some of the old crap they had, to see if they could cash in! My wife watches it. I just think it’s stupid 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnie Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Interesting! So in 2007 or 8 I got to go to Charron Lake (N52.73 W95.28), about 70 Nautical south south west of Island Lake (CYIV), to help the Western Canada Air Museum in Winnipeg sling the tail section of a Fokker Super Universal! It was in the exhibit when I went in 2018, but they lost their Hangar. I don't know if they have gotten funding for a new location yet. I had it on a 100 foot long line on the Bell 206 Jet Ranger, and we stopped in Little Grand Rapids for fuel, before making it to Lac Du Bonnet with it. The tail section was in a crate and had horrible drag, but it was fun and I enjoyed the history aspect of it. I used to work for an aviation museum in Norway, and we certainly had some pioneering history, but Canada had a lot. Tom Lamb of Lamb-air comes to mind... Anyway, a funny anecdote to your cool build! Welcome back! 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Clunkmeister Posted October 18, 2020 Author Administrators Share Posted October 18, 2020 Winnie, the Charon Lake aircraft was a myth when I was flying up there. It was rumored to be a STANDARD Universal, not a Super. G-CAJD. That open cockpit must have been a JOY to work in when it was 50 below at altitude. I’d have never hacked it. Maybe when I was 25, but not now. i just did a search on “The Ghost of Charron Lake”, and indeed it is a Standard Universal. It broke through the ice and was abandoned and left where it was. When the ice melted in the spring, it flew down to its final resting spot, practically undamaged. Which makes it all the more unique, is because the Standard Universal is absolutely extinct in this world and a restored aircraft would be priceless. Theres a lot of Fokkers up in the north to this day. Long forgotten and left where they lay. You certainly are aware of the fun times up north available to all that stick it out for longer than a week. You chopper guys are crazy. The crap y’all do for pennies makes me shake my head. I was always worried about running one of y’all down when joining the pattern at some Unicom gravel strip. Y’all are darn near bloody invisible. Especially end on. Of course we relaxed when we got much over 2000 ft. Then it became swarms of 185s and Otters 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzaS Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 I don;t know if there's enough space between the open cockpit and propeller arc to fit a proper MG, Ern. Might have to give up on this one.... not a warplane at all. The 30's is to aircraft aesthetics as is the late 70's to early 80's for cars. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Clunkmeister Posted October 18, 2020 Author Administrators Share Posted October 18, 2020 Gazz, Gazz, Gazz.... sigh. The 20s certainly was a rapidly developing period in aircraft design. From open cockpit DH.9a’s in 1920, 15 years later we had the DC-2 and DC-3, completely modern transcontinental capable airliners. But to get there, we needed development. The late 20s Fokkers were the bridge. Construction still based on the past, but aerodynamic, capability, performance, reliability, and comfort approaching modern day standards. The Standard Universal, with its open cockpit, was still firmly old timey, but with very small tweaks, the bigger Super Universal was thoroughly modern. And the Soper was a warplane. It was produced in Japan and flew well into WW2. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seiran01 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnie Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 Ha cool! Standard Universal! Yeah we rotorheads think you fixed wing guys are nuts too... There's a bunch of 185s, Otters and Beavers on slippers (floats) that fart around much lower than us... I just don't join the circuit, just land into the apron in the best fashion not to end up in front of any planks... Northern Manitoba, indeed all of northern Canada is filled with wrecks. I've seen my fair share for sure, never found any hidden gems yet though! Cheers, Harald 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingco57 Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 Supermarine Stranraer was a gem they found in Saanich Inlet. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Clunkmeister Posted October 19, 2020 Author Administrators Share Posted October 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Winnie said: Ha cool! Standard Universal! Yeah we rotorheads think you fixed wing guys are nuts too... There's a bunch of 185s, Otters and Beavers on slippers (floats) that fart around much lower than us... I just don't join the circuit, just land into the apron in the best fashion not to end up in front of any planks... Northern Manitoba, indeed all of northern Canada is filled with wrecks. I've seen my fair share for sure, never found any hidden gems yet though! Cheers, Harald When Floyd told me he was doing once vertical full power pulls to 11,000 ft over Baltimore on test flights I had visions of some clown like me running him over. I'd bop along just under 10,000 and a chopper is the very last thing I'd be looking for up there. many of those Beaver, 185, and Otter guys think they're rock skimming cars, not low flying aircraft. The 185 was a Provincial bird up there. Anyone trying to make a buck had one. 206s were for the pinky in the air Genteel Class. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Clunkmeister Posted October 19, 2020 Author Administrators Share Posted October 19, 2020 20 minutes ago, Wingco57 said: Supermarine Stranraer was a gem they found in Saanich Inlet. Did they ever pull that one up, or salvage it in any way? That's a priceless artifact. There was once a York, complete with engines, beached somewhere up there. I think the went back and pulled it all out, but some of it might still be there. Mostly it's DC-3s, C-46s, and C-54s. 185s, Beavers and Otters usually get choppered out, but the Fokkers are invisible, even if they're still there. The wing rots away and the steel tubes disappear into the tundra. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingco57 Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 The Stranraer was recovered the same museum IIRC which displays the "Hampden". 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seiran01 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Damn, I totally forgot about these! I took screenshots of some of the youtube videos that you might find helpful 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seiran01 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, seiran01 said: I'd been looking and looking over everything trying to figure out where the hell the throttle would be. Looking more at this one, I think it's got to be the vertical bars with the black balls on the end connected on the horizontal rod below the control panel. I'm still convinced it's a folding copilot seat with no backrest for access through the triangular cabin door given that there are clearly two sets of rudder pedals in the old timey photo. What a strange setup though with the single control column.... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seiran01 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Edit again... clearly this morning I need MORE COFFEE! Throttle is clearly visible on the left side attached to the diagonal tube (see the 4th pic above) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnie Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Just a funny helicopter anecdote, since there was one earlier... I had to do a power check on a 206L3, I had to call center and ask for 15000 feet... over dryden. The guy at center just said; If you can get that high? fill your boots...." 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Clunkmeister Posted December 10, 2020 Author Administrators Share Posted December 10, 2020 On 10/23/2020 at 12:31 PM, Winnie said: Just a funny helicopter anecdote, since there was one earlier... I had to do a power check on a 206L3, I had to call center and ask for 15000 feet... over dryden. The guy at center just said; If you can get that high? fill your boots...." Liker we’ve talked about before, the very last thing I’d expect to see at 7500 ft, or 11000 ft, never mind 15,000 ft is a helicopter. That’s tube sucking altitude and as far as I knew, the very last thing on a 206 would be oxygen. Of course, you’re only there for a few minutes, but still, yikes! My question is,.... did you actually make it there? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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