1/32 WNW Lancaster

[Bomber_County]

On 10/25/2021 at 5:06 PM, harv said:

Not going to look.....harv 

Go on, dare you……..

[krow113]

The nose art  section of this kit went on sale on the Graveyard for $60 AM the other day.

Peeps with space limitations could get their Lanc' on that way.

[Peterpools]

I've just been reading that there might be some form of legal action and that the Lanc might be on hold. Not sure of what all this actually means  - anyone have any further information?
Keep ‘em comin

Peter

[Aaron O'Brien]

On 11/4/2021 at 1:33 AM, Peterpools said:

I've just been reading that there might be some form of legal action and that the Lanc might be on hold. Not sure of what all this actually means  - anyone have any further information?
Keep ‘em comin

Peter

Hi Peter, after seeing similar posts about the kit being cancelled etc...on a UK-based modeller's site I messaged Border Models directly and this is their reply: "This is a rumor, we will ship the goods in December"

I also contacted Hobbyeasy [Hong Kong based] where I have my pre-order, and the owner replied saying he had not heard anything either. Perhaps the chatter on the internet is due to a UK-specific issue? As it seems some of the outlets there are postponing/refunding orders etc....

I suspect things will become clearer in the next few days?

Aaron

[GazzaS]

PJ is an asshole.  I've said it before.  He's screwed his employees and screwed the molding companies.  Rock on, Border.

[Wumm]

That's one point of view...

Another is; that a Company operating out of China (where there is no Rule of Law as exists in the Western Hemisphere, and therefore no understanding of such) bought the moulds from the Company which holds them, without bothering to get authorisation from the Individual or Company that paid for the actual design of said moulds.

The Company that holds the moulds may not have generated the original Intellectual Property. If Mr.Jackson holds the original designs and can show that he paid for same, then we may never see this kit sold in the Western Hemisphere.

S

[GazzaS]

2 hours ago, Wumm said:

That's one point of view...

Another is; that a Company operating out of China (where there is no Rule of Law as exists in the Western Hemisphere, and therefore no understanding of such) bought the moulds from the Company which holds them, without bothering to get authorisation from the Individual or Company that paid for the actual design of said moulds.

The Company that holds the moulds may not have generated the original Intellectual Property. If Mr.Jackson holds the original designs and can show that he paid for same, then we may never see this kit sold in the Western Hemisphere.

S

And we always like to assume that in China they just do whatever they want.  I don't know if that is really fair to them.  It's not like they can jet over to NZ and get the money PJ owes them.

[smitty44]

Think I remember another company doing this wirh a B-25.

[Wumm]

31 minutes ago, GazzaS said:

And we always like to assume that in China they just do whatever they want.  I don't know if that is really fair to them.  It's not like they can jet over to NZ and get the money PJ owes them.

So far as is evident from Border Model's Facebook post, Peter Jackson owes them not one red cent... Although Border seem pretty loose with the insults and libelous banter themselves.

Whatever Mr.Jackson owes the Mould Makers (if anything) has nothing to do with Border Models using the intellectual property that someone else spent time, effort and money generating. Simply buying the rights to one, doesn't guarantee the rights to the other. You need to seek permission, and usually pay for the privilege.

Not just take what you want, and bitch about it when reality bites.

S

 

[AlanG]

3 hours ago, Wumm said:

Whatever Mr.Jackson owes the Mould Makers (if anything) has nothing to do with Border Models using the intellectual property that someone else spent time, effort and money generating. Simply buying the rights to one, doesn't guarantee the rights to the other. You need to seek permission, and usually pay for the privilege.

From the way i read it. The mould company asked for money. Waited an appropriate amount of time to receive said funds. PJ didn't fufil his contract so mould company sold moulds to Border. Border then updated/reworked said moulds, therefore changing the IP to their own standards.

If what Borders say is true then i hope two very large fingers are raised in PJ's face. Not all Chinese companys are 'at it'. And yet they always seem to be portrayed as the enemy and evil doers.

[krow113]

Its good thing there are plenty of other models to be building !

[AlanG]

14 minutes ago, krow113 said:

Its good thing there are plenty of other models to be building !

More then i am likely to finish in my build rate and lifetime

[Wumm]

9 hours ago, AlanG said:

If what Borders say is true then i hope two very large fingers are raised in PJ's face. Not all Chinese companys are 'at it'. And yet they always seem to be portrayed as the enemy and evil doers.

If you truly believe this, then I have a Rollex watch to sell you...

Everything stated so far by Border is mere hearsay at this point. What is really surprising to me, is that other sites like LSP and Hyperscale have allowed the potentially libelous Border Facebook statement to be reproduced in it's entirety on their own pages, opening them up to potential legal action themselves. 

Just waiting now for either Peter Jackson or his representatives to Beetlejuice those threads...

S

[Wumm]

Recent changes to Chinese Copyright Law could possibly hinder certain approaches to the way business has traditionally been done there. 

https://www.natlawreview.com/article/amendments-to-china-s-copyright-law

Of particular interest is section 3 of these amendments, which includes this section specifically:

This may mean that even though Border Model have modified either the design or the moulds themselves, they may still need the approval of the original owner ( the "co-author" in this case) to proceed with the finished project.

S 

[krow113]

lol

and then there is how things really work...

[smitty44]

Reading about this elsewhere. PJ is going to put Border out if buisness with all of this. I wouldn't buy anything from the prick after this after having knowledge of how he treated his staff. WNW may still be legally a company, but in my eyes WNW was the talented staff  who are all gone now. So any thought he wants to release it himself seems like bs to me. He is just trying to stick it to them. Dr 1 will make way more money than this, seems odd he did nothing there.

[Bill_S]

38 minutes ago, smitty44 said:

Reading about this elsewhere. PJ is going to put Border out if buisness with all of this. I wouldn't buy anything from the prick after this after having knowledge of how he treated his staff. WNW may still be legally a company, but in my eyes WNW was the talented staff  who are all gone now. So any thought he wants to release it himself seems like bs to me. He is just trying to stick it to them. Dr 1 will make way more money than this, seems odd he did nothing there.

Makes it sound to me like the Meng deal was legit.

[smitty44]

20 minutes ago, Bill_S said:

Makes it sound to me like the Meng deal was legit.

Ya, but I bet PJ would have cared less about those molds had they just sat around and rotted forever or been thrown in the trash. Undoubtedly the HP 0/100 will.

[krow113]

Model forum lawyers say...

lol

[JohnB]

Isn't Border Models a Red Chinese company?🙄

[GazzaS]

2 hours ago, JohnB said:

Isn't Border Models a Red Chinese company?🙄

I thought all Chinese companies were Red.

[krow113]

lol

every other thread on all the other forums about this has been locked off.

...and here we are trying to figure out if China is red.

[Wumm]

No-one prospers in Mainland China without the support or at least the permission of the CCP. However things are changing, albeit slowly in some cases.

I am also a member of some Horological Forums. Many counterfeit watches these days can be so well made that even the experts can sometimes be fooled. As in the recent case where the Rapper Lil' Baby was sold a fake version of a $100,000 watch by a Jeweller in the USA who put a 300% mark-up on it first...

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/lil-baby-patek-nautilus

Many fake watches are made along side the originals in the same factories that are hired by various high-end watch brands to make the cases and dials that will later be assembled in Switzerland or Japan by Company employees. Often the only difference between genuine or fake is the type of movement within the watch that in most cases will never be seen by the end user. China is now cracking down on the fake watch industry, as it is with many other counterfeit ventures; but as this article shows, whether the fakes made with your brand on the dial get seized or not often depends on whether you pay off the Authorities in advance.

https://www.europastar.com/the-watch-files/watchmaking-in-china/1004091677-in-the-labyrinth-of-counterfeit-watches.html

So there may be some cause for concern if you breach Chinese Copyright Law, and your adversary has deep pockets.

7 hours ago, krow113 said:

Model forum lawyers say...

lol

Probably a good idea to have at least a basic knowledge of the law, if you intend to call an Individual a prick, an asshole or a liar on an open Forum.

Especially if that Individual is a Billionaire and also in a litigious mood...

S

[krow113]

So much for having a little fun.

[Wumm]

Sorry Steve...

Abusing people and stealing people's stuff is not my idea of fun.

Your mileage may vary.

S