Special Hobby Whirlwind

[HubertB]

Cool ! This is one kit I bought, just to support Special Hobby for coming out with off-the-beaten-track subjects. And then I found, thankfully, that I could find a civilian scheme to go with it  

I will be following along 

Hubert

[Peterpools]

Hubert, glad you're on board for the journey and a great reason for buying the ki,. We all should purchase a kit once in a while based on support for companies going the extra mile and producing kits of subjects rarely done or not done at all.

 

.  

[Peterpools]

A little while ago I read Marks problems with the Cartograf decals for his Viggen, replied that I never had any issues with Cartograf decals and will be using Mr Setter and Softer with my Cartograf decals for the Whirlwind. OMG, for the very first time, the Cartograf decals do not want to sit down and sink onto the IP - what on earth is happening? I'm going to pull out the big guns and try using a hair blower on the decals to get them to sit.

 

[mark31]

Strenge things

I hope all works out gor you

I have solved it with another brand and stronger solution

 

Mark

[Peterpools]

Mark

Been playing around with still using Mr Setter and Mr Softer on the Cartograf decals and I finally was able to get all my ducks in order and all went well. I'm not sure if Cartograf made any changes to their decals (which I doubt - why fool with perfection) but I decided to use Mr Setter to only position the decal and then keep applying Mr Softer, letting it fully dry between coats and NOT touching anything at all. The decals upon drying, settled down perfectly and no further issues at all. Live and learn.

 

[BlrwestSiR]

Glad to hear you find an approach that works with the decals. Those are still my biggest challenge. 

Carl

[belugawhaleman]

Glad to see you're building this kit as I feel it's one of the coolest looking

designs of the second world war and I'm sure you'll do it justice. I may leave the

beaten path of countless purchases of Tamiya armor to buy this kit....it's just that

cool! Anyway, I've been having decal issues as well...the Star Decals that I've used

Lately, well, are weird. They, at first, don't appear to soften with decal sol, but if you

press down slightly, (I use a ammo rubber brush) they conform to details nicely. They

also lie very flat.... I kind of like them and I have a lot of them. I have a set for Korean

war "easy eights" that has a two-tone camo  option for a Sherman..... Funny, I thought all Shermans were greenish......well anyway, On with your build!

 

 

 

[Peterpools]

carl

Still trying to understand why this set and Mark's latest Cartograf decals had settling and softening issues - color and registration look perfect as always. At least, they're on and ready for a flat coat and then the gloss dials. It's funny, my two favorite portions of any build: paint and decals. 

 

[Peterpools]

Paul, whose decals are you using .. Tamiya? It does seem odd that decal issues are popping up lately in places they use to be trouble free.

I'm with you, the Whirlwind is a col looking aircraft and so far, no real issues as I'm almost done with the cockpit and getting ready for an update. From my research, it seems the biggest drawback to the Whirlwind being delayed in production and being issued to the RAF, was a shortage of RR engines. While the engines regulated for it were not Merlin's, parts of those engine were needed for Merlin production and the Whirlwind took he hit for the shortage.

 

 

[HubertB]

8 hours ago, Peterpools said:

Paul, whose decals are you using .. Tamiya? It does seem odd that decal issues are popping up lately in places they use to be trouble free.

I'm with you, the Whirlwind is a col looking aircraft and so far, no real issues as I'm almost done with the cockpit and getting ready for an update. From my research, it seems the biggest drawback to the Whirlwind being delayed in production and being issued to the RAF, was a shortage of RR engines. While the engines regulated for it were not Merlin's, parts of those engine were needed for Merlin production and the Whirlwind took he hit for the shortage.

 

 

Actually, the key issue was that its Peregrine engine was the end of the line of development from the immensely successful Kestrel. Whilst not a bad engine per se, it was early 30s technology, and the next-in-line, the Merlin, was using the ideas developed for the R used in the Supermarine S6/S6b that won the Schneider Trophy. It was also based on 50% more displacement than the Peregrine.

In short, the Merlin had a lot of potential, when the Peregrine was already rather at the end of its development path, and when wartime pressures forced priorities, the choice was easy. It was also clear in the late 30s, that fighters would need more than 1000 HP (just ask the French if they think they stuck too long with the  Hispano Suiza Y family, and whether they would have preferred more HP in their fighters in 1940). With hindsight, priorising the Merlin was absolutely the right decision to make  

One can only dream of the combination of the Whirlwind airframe with the Merlin …

End of thread drift …

Hubert

Hubert

[belugawhaleman]

7 hours ago, Peterpools said:

Paul, whose decals are you using .. Tamiya? It does seem odd that decal issues are popping up lately in places they use to be trouble free.

I'm with you, the Whirlwind is a col looking aircraft and so far, no real issues as I'm almost done with the cockpit and getting ready for an update. From my research, it seems the biggest drawback to the Whirlwind being delayed in production and being issued to the RAF, was a shortage of RR engines. While the engines regulated for it were not Merlin's, parts of those engine were needed for Merlin production and the Whirlwind took he hit for the shortage.

 

 

The decals are by STAR DECALS.

[Peterpools]

22 minutes ago, HubertB said:

Actually, the key issue was that its Peregrine engine was the end of the line of development from the immensely successful Kestrel. Whilst not a bad engine per se, it was early 30s technology, and the next-in-line, the Merlin, was using the ideas developed for the R used in the Supermarine S6/S6b that won the Schneider Trophy. It was also based on 50% more displacement than the Peregrine.

In short, the Merlin had a lot of potential, when the Peregrine was already rather at the end of its development path, and when wartime pressures forced priorities, the choice was easy. It’s also clear in the late 30s, that fighters would need more than 1000 HP (just ask the French if they think they stuck too long with the  Hispano Suiza Y family, and whether they would have preferred more HP in their fighters in 1940). With hindsight, priorising the Merlin it was absolutely the right decision to make  

One can only dream of the combination of the Whirlwind airframe with the Merlin …

End of thread drift …

Hubert

Hubert

Hubert

Way to go - thank you so much for the correct history of the Whirlwind and it surely puts everything into perspective. There never is any substitute for horsepower. I can only imagine what the Whrilwind might have been with Merlins in her nacelles. Geez, look at that the Merlin did for the Mustang!

 

 

[Peterpools]

1 hour ago, belugawhaleman said:

The decals are by STAR DECALS.

Paul

Just seems so strange that there are more and more decal issues popping up lately. I haven't used Star Decals and I'm leaning towards the solutions might be to apply a bit of heat during application, which should soften the carrier film, making the setting solutions a bit more potent.

 

[belugawhaleman]

2 hours ago, Peterpools said:

Paul

Jusay seems so strange that there are more and more decal issues popping up lately. I haven't used Star Decals and I'm leaning towards the solutions might be to apply a bit of heat during application, which should soften the carrier film, making the setting solutions a bit more potent.

 

I wonder if solutions lose their potency over time? Walther's Solvaset is usually very

strong and it it sort of worked with the STAR decals. The last time I used it was with

my panzer 38(t) build the decals being Tamiya, and it worked very well. Sometimes I

press the decal down with a paper towel or swab dampened with hot water...this works

Well. Last night on my Stuart I pressed down on the decal with  the tip of one of my silicone

rubber brushes I got from Ammo/Mig this helped the decal to conform to some raised

detail on the kit.

[Peterpools]

Paul

Good solution to the problem. My brother is a big supporter of Solvaset and I should give it a try next time there are any issues and see what happens.

 

 

[Clunkmeister]

Pulling up a chair for this one. 
 

This is gonna be good

[Martinnfb]

Picture time

 

 

[Peterpools]

Ernie

Welcome aboard, yup sure is going to be a fun build and I've already been plugging away on the front office.

 

[Peterpools]

Martin

Thanks for the photos - much appreciated .. lots of terrific detail to check out for

 

[Peterpools]

UNDERWAY AND MAKING PROGRESS

Special Hobby step one was the front office, my usual kickoff point and a good way to get a feel for the kit in general. Remember the rules: This is a limited run kit and there will be challenges.

Challenge One – getting use to the instructions. While they are reasonably nicely laid out and in color, there isn’t any getting around they are prone to be vague as to part location and how the parts actually go together. The best resource I found was the CAD photos on Special Hobby’s website and the photographs Martin and Dennis have posted - they do answer a lot of questions. Once I understood where the parts actually went, I noticed the detail parts  weren’t crisp nor sharp. Careful brush painting helped bring out the details and overall, the final look was pretty good and did the part.

On all the parts that had lightening holes represented by ‘dimples’, I went the extra mile and drilled everyone out as it made big difference in the overall look.

Numerous times I questioned Special Hobby’s assembly sequence as the road they chose seemed to be more difficult then need be. Part of the assembly decisions was based on how the detail parts were designed and they are a bit over complicated and where the part could have been just one piece with the correct angles at the attachment points, SH made the part from at least two or more parts and the gluing angles needed a bit of luck added to the mix.

One other confusion issue I ran into a number of times is which part to actually use, as two versions are included in the kit. If you refer to the instructions it shows a specific part and part number and yet when you look at the full sprue drawing, that particular part had a Red X crossing it out (?).

I decided not to use any primer on the interior and went right to the main color: MRP RAF Interior Gray Green. I spent hours on end hand painting all the sub-assemblies and details with Model Air Paints about 95% of the time and the balance with Tamiya lacquer paints.

As I had already discussed, the IP has raised details and is covered with a single Cartograf decal, that should have been a piece of cake. But after cutting the decal into three parts to help the decals sit down over the numerous lumps and bumps using Gunze Mr Setter and Mr Softer, I was amazed that the decals just wouldn’t soften, wouldn't sink into place nor conform very well. My normal and tested decal procedure for the past 40 years was useless. What seemed to work was to position the decal in place with Mr Setter and leave it alone until dry. Then start layer on top of layer, letting Mr Softer dry in between each coat. Eventually the decals began to soften and sink into place but not the way they should, I have no idea why and this is the very first time I have ever had any negative experiences with Cartograf decals. A few instrument decals are missing and I left it that way, just high lightening the gauge as so little can be seen.

The cockpit details looked pretty good and I thought I would do a bit of weathering with some washes and I was very happy with the results.

While the weathering was drying I built up the seat, again needing the CAD drawings to help put the puzzle together, following up with MRP Interior Gray Green for the frame and a tannish brown for the back cushion. Kit Worlds 3D Resin Seatbelt was installed and I was quite pleased with how they looked but I do agree with Carl they are simplified, a bit lacking in ‘heft’ and don’t seem to look the part. This is one kit, I wish Special Hobby would have offered an AM set to help with the front office details.

 

[JohnB]

22 minutes ago, Peterpools said:

UNDERWAY AND MAKING PROGRESS

Special Hobby step one was the front office, my usual kickoff point and a good way to get a feel for the kit in general. Remember the rules: This is a limited run kit and there will be challenges.

Challenge One – getting use to the instructions. While they are reasonably nicely laid out and in color, there isn’t any getting around they are prone to be vague as to part location and how the parts actually go together. The best resource I found was the CAD photos on Special Hobby’s website and the photographs Martin and Dennis have posted - they do answer a lot of questions. Once I understood where the parts actually went, I noticed the detail parts  weren’t crisp nor sharp. Careful brush painting helped bring out the details and overall, the final look was pretty good and did the part.

On all the parts that had lightening holes represented by ‘dimples’, I went the extra mile and drilled everyone out as it made big difference in the overall look.

Numerous times I questioned Special Hobby’s assembly sequence as the road they chose seemed to be more difficult then need be. Part of the assembly decisions was based on how the detail parts were designed and they are a bit over complicated and where the part could have been just one piece with the correct angles at the attachment points, SH made the part from at least two or more parts and the gluing angles needed a bit of luck added to the mix.

One other confusion issue I ran into a number of times is which part to actually use, as two versions are included in the kit. If you refer to the instructions it shows a specific part and part number and yet when you look at the full sprue drawing, that particular part had a Red X crossing it out (?).

I decided not to use any primer on the interior and went right to the main color: MRP RAF Interior Gray Green. I spent hours on end hand painting all the sub-assemblies and details with Model Air Paints about 95% of the time and the balance with Tamiya lacquer paints.

As I had already discussed, the IP has raised details and is covered with a single Cartograf decal, that should have been a piece of cake. But after cutting the decal into three parts to help the decals sit down over the numerous lumps and bumps using Gunze Mr Setter and Mr Softer, I was amazed that the decals just wouldn’t soften, wouldn't sink into place nor conform very well. My normal and tested decal procedure for the past 40 years was useless. What seemed to work was to position the decal in place with Mr Setter and leave it alone until dry. Then start layer on top of layer, letting Mr Softer dry in between each coat. Eventually the decals began to soften and sink into place but not the way they should, I have no idea why and this is the very first time I have ever had any negative experiences with Cartograf decals. A few instrument decals are missing and I left it that way, just high lightening the gauge as so little can be seen.

The cockpit details looked pretty good and I thought I would do a bit of weathering with some washes and I was very happy with the results.

While the weathering was drying I built up the seat, again needing the CAD drawings to help put the puzzle together, following up with MRP Interior Gray Green for the frame and a tannish brown for the back cushion. Kit Worlds 3D Resin Seatbelt was installed and I was quite pleased with how they looked but I do agree with Carl they are simplified, a bit lacking in ‘heft’ and don’t seem to look the part. This is one kit, I wish Special Hobby would have offered an AM set to help with the front office details.

 

Looking good Peter.

[Martinnfb]

Beautiful detail, just beautiful 

[Spitfire]

That cockpit looks crisp and neat, really nice work, the seatbelts do look fine but a bit simplified I might try the Airscale Sutton ones when I build mine.

Cheers

Dennis

[HubertB]

Lovely work, Peter.

Hubert

[belugawhaleman]

Great job Peter!