Clear the Bench! Zoukei Moura Bf-109G14 Non-Hartmann Build

[Clunkmeister]

Hmmm. 
Im an unqualified observer here simply because  I know so very little about the type. 
I have great respect for Radu’s talent not only as a researcher and model designer, but also as a genuinely decent, respectful, and all around good guy. He’s the best there is, folks. 
And I’m pretty good at some stuff too and tend to hold my own when questioned, just like Radu.

My personal opinion is that there are serious limits to what even the most careful IM procedures can achieve, and ZM has done some seriously brilliant kits throughout their relatively short life. Maybe a bridge too far here? Who knows. 
But what I DO know is that Radu is correct, as the stabilizer needs to change incidence as the pilot adjusts his trim wheel, but Martin is also right in that the pictures show no gap, because at the distances we view from, the gap would be invisible to the human eye. 
Let’s face it, the designers at Messerschmitt were, by that time, trying to eke every last knot they could out of an obsolete airframe, and extra tight tolerances would be expected.  Maybe tighter as the war dragged on and Germany was harder pressed to produce much needed equipment?  Who knows. Messerschmitt engineers have long since passed away so we can’t ask.  But an untouched original Czech built 109 variant doesn’t lie, and neither do period photos at exact angles to showcase any gap. 
Personally, I’m just happy to have a 109 that’s had Radu do the design work. We all knew months ahead of time that no matter how good it was, a 109 will always come out of the box with SOME perceived error. Never has there been a more closely studied aircraft. 

In watching the various builds take place on here and elsewhere, I’ll be inclined to figure out some way of eliminating the complete engine from inside the cowl, IF it continues to be an issue with all builds. 
My .02 only. Marring is one of the most gifted model builders I know, and by far, the most in depth research guy I know, and Radu matches Martin in research and is simply put the reigning King of kit designers in my opinion. 

[harv]

Thanks Ern....harv

[BlrwestSiR]

17 minutes ago, Clunkmeister said:

  

 

In watching the various builds take place on here and elsewhere, I’ll be inclined to figure out some way of eliminating the complete engine from inside the cowl, IF it continues to be an issue with all builds. 
My .02 only. Marrtin is one of the most gifted model builders I know, and by far, the most in depth research guy I know, and Radu matches Martin in research and is simply put the reigning King of kit designers in my opinion. 

Ernie, these fit issues are some of the things I'm looking to address with my build review. When the kit arrived, the first thing I did was tape the fuselage and tailplane together. Looking at it, Martin and I figured that it's probably the fillet at the base of the vertical tail causing the step. To me, it's a bit exaggerated, sort of like the F-35 RAM panels on just about every model of that plane. 

Here's some pics I took using just tape to hold things together. The parts are trimmed from the sprues with no mods yet. 

I think if you sand down the fillet circled in red a bit so it's not so proud, that will fix the look of the tail. 

As for the engine and cowl fit, it looks like ZM has gone for scale fidelity here and the attachment points are small. So it could be very easy to mis-align the engine. 

The engine so far in my review kit has gone together perfectly. Everything has lined up and met where it should but some parts don't have the most positive alignment so it wouldn't be hard to go awry. There's more in my build review  so I don't clog up Gary 's thread .

Carl

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by BlrwestSiR
Fix typo

[GazzaS]

Goodmorning, Campers!

Work continues.  Surface work and final joins of some panels.

There were a few sink marks.  Since I hate waiting for Mr. surfacer and other hot putties to dry, I added gouges giving black CA something to hold on to.  A spritz of activator, and then sanding.

 

  

I will say that I do love some things about this kit.  I have perfect dorsal and ventral seams.  Something I can never do on my own. But since all of the cement holding the halves together is on the internal frames, there is no rounded glue joint requiring scribing.

 

Below, you'll notice a segmented line of black CA between the oil cooler ring and forward edge of the cowling.  The reason is because the profile of the cowling didn't mate up neatly with the oil cooler ring.  The problem was that I needed to push the cowling out to mate neatly with the cooler ring.  Fortunately, I have some filo files that are curved at the ends.  I was able to insert them though a gap in the top of the oil cooler and apply pressure and a few drops of black CA.  Perhaps if I put all of the engine plumbing in, this might not have been necessary.

YMMV.

 

I have also been sanding the textured surface of the model.

[DocRob]

Great fix to the cowl issue Gary. All will look great now under a coat of paint.

Cheers Rob

[Peterpools]

3 hours ago, BlrwestSiR said:

Ernie, these fit issues are some of the things I'm looking to address with my build review. When the kit arrived, the first thing I did was tape the fuselage and tailplane together. Looking at it, Martin and I figured that it's probably the fillet at the base of the vertical tail causing the step. To me, it's a bit exaggerated, sort of like the F-35 RAM panels on just about every model of that plane. 

Here's some pics I took using just tape to hold things together. The parts are trimmed from the sprues with no mods yet. 

I think if you sand down the fillet circled in red a bit so it's not so proud, that will fix the look of the tail. 

As for the engine and cowl fit, it looks like ZM has gone for scale fidelity here and the attachment points are small. So it could be very easy to mis-align the engine. 

The engine so far in my review kit has gone together perfectly. Everything has lined up and met where it should but some parts don't have the most positive alignment so it wouldn't be hard to go awry. There's more in my build review  so I don't clog up Gary 's thread .

Carl

 

Carl

Some mighty nice investigation work and now I am starting to fully understand the issue and problem. Other then read the instructions, I've forced myself not to tinker with the parts of my kit, as I know what will happen - I'll start building and I have to finish the Whirlwind first - I have no will power. 

Absolutely, the fillet is way too proud and needs to be sanded back for scale appearance and fit. The analogy to the RAM tape on all the F-35 kits to date is perfect - of course Tamiya's beautiful 1/48 F-35A will be out by December and I'm betting the RAM issue will be a thing of the past on their kit. 

Also looking at the horizontal stabilizer pivot plate up against the tail, it's also way too thick, out of scale and needs to be sanded back. The look will improve and there even should be room now for a small gap. I'm sure this is more of a function of IM limitations then an error in design. 

As Ernie point pointed out: the stabilizer needs to change incidence as the pilot adjusts his trim wheel ...

As for the whole engine /cowl issue ... for me it isn't an issue as I plan on having that beautiful DB hanging out in the breeze right up there with all the Merlin's in my display case.

 

[Peterpools]

Gaz

Nice progress on resolving the cowl fir issue. I'm you in that I find myself using more and more CCA for fille; faster drying times and filling in gaps - its extra strength compared to Mr Surfacer is a bit of insurance cracks won't appear down the road. 

 

[Clunkmeister]

Gas, I built two Ta-152s of theirs, and learned much in the first build. The first one had been started when I got it, and I had multitudes of issues with the wing roots not fitting correctly aLong with exaggerated wing root detail, etc,.. much like you’re seeing here.  So this one can be chalked up to styrene molding tech limitations?  I’m inclined to say so here.  Those tailplane fillets could have looked gorgeous in thin brass sheet, but no kitmakers could ever do that. Resin? Maybe, but it’d be crazy fragile.

As for the engine and cowl fit, I had the same issues on my first 152, but worse. All previous builds pointed out a small filler piece behind the prop that wasn’t angled correctly and I concentrated on getting that absolutely perfect. Which meant cutting out the engine and reimagining the engine mounts.  It got pretty ugly under that hood, exacerbated by having to remember that the rear engine and accessory drive protrude into the gear wells and are plainly visible for all to see.  The surface repairs and describing took longer than the majority of the build. 
Forewarned and forearmed, the second built was dry fitted so many times I probably “built” it 20 times, and in the end, lo and behold, it fit perfectly. 
The thing that grated on me was fit the life of me, I couldn’t figure out what I did wrong.  Maybe, if you’re going to close the thing up anyway, refrain from engine paint? 
 

Nevertheless, you’re doing a fabulous job here, showcasing what we need to watch for a d plan ahead go to.  Great build thread so far. 

[Fidd88]

On 10/1/2022 at 12:23 AM, Martinnfb said:

That poor thing went through hell already 

 

I was in ground school for my commercial flying license when "Black 6" went down, with a very senior RAF officer at the controls. We had an ex-RAF lecturer, who first thing in the morning breezed into the class-room, stating "I see the RAF claimed it's last 109 yesterday!". Nothing starts a day of "loading" instruction (much mathematics) like a bloody good laugh, as we were near weeping with boredom by the end of the day!

[Clunkmeister]

1 hour ago, Fidd88 said:

I was in ground school for my commercial flying license when "Black 6" went down, with a very senior RAF officer at the controls. We had an ex-RAF lecturer, who first thing in the morning breezed into the class-room, stating "I see the RAF claimed it's last 109 yesterday!". Nothing starts a day of "loading" instruction (much mathematics) like a bloody good laugh, as we were near weeping with boredom by the end of the day!

That’s an interesting way of putting it but oh so true and spoken like a true Brit and I LOVE IT!

I blew coffee out all over my keyboard

[GazzaS]

7 hours ago, Clunkmeister said:

Gas, I built two Ta-152s of theirs, and learned much in the first build. The first one had been started when I got it, and I had multitudes of issues with the wing roots not fitting correctly aLong with exaggerated wing root detail, etc,.. much like you’re seeing here.  So this one can be chalked up to styrene molding tech limitations?  I’m inclined to say so here.  Those tailplane fillets could have looked gorgeous in thin brass sheet, but no kitmakers could ever do that. Resin? Maybe, but it’d be crazy fragile.

As for the engine and cowl fit, I had the same issues on my first 152, but worse. All previous builds pointed out a small filler piece behind the prop that wasn’t angled correctly and I concentrated on getting that absolutely perfect. Which meant cutting out the engine and reimagining the engine mounts.  It got pretty ugly under that hood, exacerbated by having to remember that the rear engine and accessory drive protrude into the gear wells and are plainly visible for all to see.  The surface repairs and describing took longer than the majority of the build. 
Forewarned and forearmed, the second built was dry fitted so many times I probably “built” it 20 times, and in the end, lo and behold, it fit perfectly. 
The thing that grated on me was fit the life of me, I couldn’t figure out what I did wrong.  Maybe, if you’re going to close the thing up anyway, refrain from engine paint? 
 

Nevertheless, you’re doing a fabulous job here, showcasing what we need to watch for a d plan ahead go to.  Great build thread so far. 

Ern,

     I know I am making much of the faults.  Maybe too much.  Thankfully I've been able to wade through them.  The finished result is most important, and I know this one will look better than a Revell or Trumpy...  or even Hasegawa shape wise.  I will buy another when the next production run comes out.  I have been thought of a new way to fix the tail...   and with experience, the other problems.

[GazzaS]

12 hours ago, DocRob said:

Great fix to the cowl issue Gary. All will look great now under a coat of paint.

Cheers Rob

 

12 hours ago, Peterpools said:

Gaz

Nice progress on resolving the cowl fir issue. I'm you in that I find myself using more and more CCA for fille; faster drying times and filling in gaps - its extra strength compared to Mr Surfacer is a bit of insurance cracks won't appear down the road. 

 

Thank you, fellas.

[smitty44]

The only good 109 is a..... well you get the picture.

[BlrwestSiR]

20 minutes ago, smitty44 said:

The only good 109 is a..... well you get the picture.

At least the gear didn't collapse ..

[GazzaS]

1 hour ago, smitty44 said:

The only good 109 is a..... well you get the picture.

You are a bad, bad man.

[GazzaS]

1 hour ago, BlrwestSiR said:

At least the gear didn't collapse ..

I don't think the E or F had such issues.

[Clunkmeister]

3 hours ago, GazzaS said:

Ern,

     I know I am making much of the faults.  Maybe too much.  Thankfully I've been able to wade through them.  The finished result is most important, and I know this one will look better than a Revell or Trumpy...  or even Hasegawa shape wise.  I will buy another when the next production run comes out.  I have been thought of a new way to fix the tail...   and with experience, the other problems.

I believe that we all just need to bear in mind the limitations of plastic injection molding. I understand exactly what they were trying to do, and it makes perfect sense, but it fell slightly short. Not badly, just a bit. 
The good news being that’s an easy clean up and fix. I doubt Tamiya will do any better than this, to be honest.  They may simplify stuff, but theirs will miss the mark in a spot or two as well.  

[Clunkmeister]

2 hours ago, smitty44 said:

The only good 109 is a..... well you get the picture.

Nice parking job. It sure would free up a lot of room on the ramp. 

[GazzaS]

Do you like sharp railing edges?  I certainly do.  But ZM didn't take this opportunity to ensure your flaps and ailerons were molded that way.  They did on the rudder and elevators.  In my limited experience, the only company that molds overlaps on the trailing edges of the main wings is ICM in their 1/48 lines.  I haven't done any ICM in 1/32, yet.

 

These are test shots after filing and sanding the flaps and ailerons.  Obviously getting the taper right isn't easy if you want to preserve molded-in detail.

And another interesting positive feature...   The brake lines are glued to the wheel well covers instead of the LG legs.

Happy modelling?

[Clunkmeister]

That’s a nice touch.  All in all, the kit looks like a gem with a few VERY minor issues easily fixed by someone experienced enough to tackle a ZM kit. 

[GazzaS]

4 hours ago, Clunkmeister said:

That’s a nice touch.  All in all, the kit looks like a gem with a few VERY minor issues easily fixed by someone experienced enough to tackle a ZM kit. 

It is a gem of a kit.  I just wish somebody had done a build blog before me.

[Peterpools]

11 hours ago, Clunkmeister said:

I believe that we all just need to bear in mind the limitations of plastic injection molding. I understand exactly what they were trying to do, and it makes perfect sense, but it fell slightly short. Not badly, just a bit. 
The good news being that’s an easy clean up and fix. I doubt Tamiya will do any better than this, to be honest.  They may simplify stuff, but theirs will miss the mark in a spot or two as well.  

Ernie

Agreed and I'm a Tamiya Fan Boy at the head of the pack. Absolutely there is no such thing as a perfect kit and Tamiya is human as well. I think the real issue is that when ZM saw there were fit issues, there should have been a notation/correction insert in the instructions about the fit issue and a suggestion of correcting it. The kit is too well engineered for ZM to have missed this.

 

 

[Peterpools]

Gaz

Nice progress and yes, trailing edges are always an issue, Sanding and losing some detail that needs to be restored is the only option. I would have gone your route and sanded the edges down.

ZM's method of adding the break lines to the inside of the gear doors works for me.  

 

[Martinnfb]

I should say something cheery and positive.              

 

 

[Martinnfb]

Anyway, this was to be expected, it is ZM after all. They never reach Tamiya's level and the reason for that is their philosophy. To get to the bones of the real structural design as much as possible, that comes with a price. Which is tipsy alignment, shallow surface detail and demanding assembly. Having said that, you are killing it Gary, step by step. 

motivational pic.