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Tamiya F-4B Phantom

Peterpools

By Peterpools
in Non LSM 'WIP

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JohnB

JohnB

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Posted
1 hour ago, Peterpools said:

Thanks John

Finished all the air brush work a few minutes ago and now now it's onto the final portion of the build and the finish line.

Keep 'em comin

Peter

Alright! I look forward to seeing the finished model. :)

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scott_t

scott_t

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Hi Peter,

I have a procedural question. Did you lay down a gloss black base under the Alclad metal colors and if so, did you put down the gloss black over the bare plastic or over the MRP primer ?

I am just getting to my primer stage on my F-4B.

Thanks !

Scott

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Peterpools

Peterpools

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Hi Scott

Always MRP primer first, then the gloss black base and then either Alclad or AK Real Metals. The issue is which Gloss Black Base works best for me and I normally use either Mr Color of Tamiya, with Mr Color being preferred. I do have a few bottle of the new Tamiya Lacquers due today for testing and see how they compare.

Keep 'em comin

Peter 

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Peterpools

Peterpools

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ALMOST A DISASTER AND THE PLAN

 

9/3/21

 

With the airbrush work finished and I was very satisfied with the results, it was time to let the Alclad Klear Kote Light Sheen ALC 311 dry for a good twelve hours. When dried, it would be time to remove the canopy masking and then attending to the remaining sub-assemblies and small parts I left to the end. As I began to remove the canopy masking, my heart sank and nearly hit the floor. A large portion inside the canopy was stained foggy white and ruined. At first, I thought it was the same issue as Rob had but mine was a hazy foggy stain and Rob’s was more of a cracking appearance.

What to do – right now, absolutely nothing as there was no way to remove the canopy without ruining it and even worse, the model itself. I decided to put the model down for a few days, walk away, regroup the troops and formulate a plan.

First and foremost, we were clobbered from the remnants of Hurricane Ida with rainfalls of 3-8 plus inches in the Tri State area, with heavy flooding, high winds and a tremendous amount of property damage. We’re OK and to just the west of us the worst began.

The Plan:

Step One: I contacted Tamiya Customer Service using their email form and asking to purchase a replacement canopy and mask set. Gary from Customer Service replied in under an hour and replacements were being sent at no charge and will take about two weeks, as they are under Covid restrictions. Absolutely brilliant customer service!

Step Two:  Figure out how to remove the ruined canopy, which is solidly glued on and can’t be popped off. I don’t remember which glue or glues I used but, in any case, it’s not coming off. I’ll cut vertically through the canopy creating a number of thin sections, which I’ll carefully chip off and then sand the remaining portions off down to the fuselage canopy sill with a fine file. Since I am not trying to save the canopy, preventing any damage to the fuselage is the name of the game.

I discussed the problem with my brother, an excellent car modeler and Rob and we agreed the staining seems to have been caused by my second coat of Mr Color Gloss Clear to seal and blend the decals in – most likely over thinned with Mr Color Self leveling Thinner and the mix found a way into the cockpit and stained the canopy.

I needed a few days break to regroup the troops and then back to completing all the little jobs that still needed to be done.

On Friday, I cleared the bench and went back to work on the F4 completing all the remaining work:

The landing gear, gear doors and oleo's.

Sparrow missiles

Sidewinders glued to the launch rails and pylons.

All the pylons were glued in place

The center line drop tank added

Speed brakes added

All the small brush painting finished.

Basically, now done except for replacing the canopy and a bit of touch up painting. So until the canopy and mask set arrives from Tamiya, the F4 is basically done.

Thanks for checking in.   

Peter

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Kaireckstadt

Kaireckstadt

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That’s really bad news Peter. The model turned out stunning and your plan how to remove the canopy will work for sure!

Maybe you can try Future or Pledge instead of Mr Color Gloss Clear. 
Can be airbrushed unthinned and never caused any trouble so far.

You reduce the risk drastically since no thinner is used.

After your repair this will be an awesome model.

Is the open canopy variant no option for you? The parts should be left over from the kit or am I wrong? 

 

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Peterpools

Peterpools

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Thanks Kai

Just a dream model to build and no issues at all except the builder, whose head wasn't screwed correctly nor was the proverbial light bulb not on, when I air brushed on the Mr Color Gloss sealer coat the way I did 🤓. This is the first time I've ever had a problem like this and I'm taking a mulligan, senior privilege. 

I've used Pledge/Future in the past and no issues at all but for whatever the reason, it just doesn't feel as bullet proof as Mr Color when dry. I finished the F4 with Alcad Klear Kote Light Sheen (lacquer), shot straight from the bottle and it laid down perfectly. The other reason I prefer lacquer clears is almost nothing seems to dissolve or effect them, especially when doing washes. I do have a 3/4 full bottle of Pledge right next to my stable of clear coats and at time. use it quite often on interior parts that require washes and sealers.

The open canopy could be an option but I used the closed canopy parts and it's way too much work to back track. I'm just glad nothing else was was destroyed or marred. Only the Tamiya decals showed some reaction but when let for a few days, you would never know. 

Tomorrow starts the official beginning of my next build: 1/32 Special Hobby Tempest Mk.II, Hi Tech kit. I started tinkering with in on Friday and I'm very impressed.

Keep 'em comin

Peter 

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DocRob

DocRob

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Peter I feel your pain as we already discussed, brothers in fogged canopy issues :D. Your Phantom looks superb and after changing the canopy you will have achieved a stunner.
Could it be easier to remove the canopy with a sharp blade, where it fits the fuselage?
As I had similar problems with my KI-61 build a week ago, I will experiment soon, if this fogging issue arises, when the canopy parts were dipped in Future / Pledge before, which I normally do, but not with the KI-61. 
I used Pledge as a clear coat many times and really like the product, but it has it's shortcomings. It is sensible to fogging, when Micro Sol comes into play and it reacts with Tamiya's panel liner and I fear, some of the hotter weathering products can lead to damages too. 
Oh how I hate to realize the different unwanted reactions with these aggressive chemicals in modelling.

Cheers Rob

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Peterpools

Peterpools

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Thanks Carl

100% my error and lucky knowing the new canopy being on it's way, makes removing the old one a lot easier, as I don't have to save anything - just extra care in not damaging the canopy sills on the fuselage. Also learned a much needed lesson: don't rush  - go slow and think about you are doing.

Keep 'em comin

Peter

  

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Peterpools

Peterpools

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Thanks Phil, Very much appreciated.

Tamiya's F4 has no vices, fit is nearly perfect and no issues. Even their decals are now so very good and the equal of most kit manufactures. It was  a tough choice deciding whose decals to use where. Loved the kit and am looking forward to the next F4 in the coming series. I still have my ZM F4J to finish which I'm planning getting back to after my next build: SH 1/32 tempest Mk.II.

Keep 'em comin

Peter   

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Kaireckstadt

Kaireckstadt

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1 hour ago, DocRob said:

Peter I feel your pain as we already discussed, brothers in fogged canopy issues :D. Your Phantom looks superb and after changing the canopy you will have achieved a stunner.
Could it be easier to remove the canopy with a sharp blade, where it fits the fuselage?
As I had similar problems with my KI-61 build a week ago, I will experiment soon, if this fogging issue arises, when the canopy parts were dipped in Future / Pledge before, which I normally do, but not with the KI-61. 
I used Pledge as a clear coat many times and really like the product, but it has it's shortcomings. It is sensible to fogging, when Micro Sol comes into play and it reacts with Tamiya's panel liner and I fear, some of the hotter weathering products can lead to damages too. 
Oh how I hate to realize the different unwanted reactions with these aggressive chemicals in modelling.

Cheers Rob

I also sometimes had the fogging of future when I used Mr. Mark Softer.

But this disappears immediately when the foggy area is brushed again with future. You just have to keep your nerves…

And weathering over future with oils worked without any trouble on all models I built.

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Peterpools

Peterpools

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Hi Rob

Completely agree and absolutely brothers in canopy issues.  I'm still thinking cutting off the canopy by slicing though it vertically removes any chance of damaging the fuselage sills, with the key being, the canopy was 'toast' before starting and no thoughts of trying to save it.  I wasn't aware of all the short comings of Pledge and while lacquer clears need extra care in application, they do not seem to have any of the other issues.

Hoping you do the fogging tests regardless, as the results will answer a lot of questions.

Keep 'em comin

Peter   

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Peterpools

Peterpools

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Kai

Much appreciate the information as the fogging issues seem to be a lot more involved then we originally thought. This is the first time I've ever encountered it  and the best way to actually avoid it: paint the canopy off the model but that still leaves chances with the wind screen, which I always paint on the model. I'm old school and do not dip my canopies in Pledge at all. If I need to remove a molding line, scratches or blemishes, I sand and polish them. One thing foir sure - there always is something.

Keep 'em comin

Peter

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