Clear the Bench! Zoukei Moura Bf-109G14 Non-Hartmann Build

[CANicoll]

AHH, now that is a great idea!  Never thought of using BlueTacto hold something while the cement sets up...  The shape is looking really good.  Sometimes these kits just go a little weird on alignment and from what it sounds like, this is fairly common with ZM.  I doubt it is some obvious mistake you made.  I'd file it away under "stuff-happens".

Can't wait to see it with some paint on it now!

[Peterpools]

Gaz

Geez, the ZM 109 is certainly having its fit issues and no, I don't think for a minute it's you. I really don't care who the manufacturer is but the more removable panels there are to show off the underneath details, the fit of those parts become worse and worse. Terrific work on your fix and repair, which resolved the fit issues. If the cowl is going to be closed, why in the world couldn't ZM just provide a simple plug to replace the engine (yes, Tamiya doesn't either, but they do not have these types of fit issues) and you wouldn't have had to go through all this aggravation. With a simple engine replacement plug, the entire nose cowl will fit and you could have displayed the engine separately on the display stand in the kit. 

I'm right with Carl and I'm a Tamiya Fan Boy ❗ You get what you pay for and no they aren't shake and bake kits - they are just well engineered to a high standard that reflects their cost. Most of mine have the cowlings off to show off the Merlin's and on the ones where the cowlings are closed up, at best I had a few minor fit issues, so easily fixed.    

I'm still planning on my ZM 109 being my next build, taking careful notes on Gaz's build and Bill's as well. For my two cents: just way too much plastic being crammed into way too small of a space - there just doesn't seem to be any breathing room. 

 

[DocRob]

Geez, Gary, I feel with you. I can imagine your anticipation on building a new great designed kit and now it's chop chop time. Your experiences have very similar aspects, I had with their TA-152. ZM doesn't seem to improve their engineering over time with these multi part hull birds in 32 scale. Where they stay conventional, like with the 48 scale Phantoms, they almost hit the Tamiya mark.
I like your tough nosed approach to finish this wretched 109 build and I'm sure, in the end, it will be a looker. I'm glad, I'm not a 109 nut and can let this kit pass without feeling troubled.

Cheers Rob

[KevinM]

10 hours ago, GazzaS said:

I've already disconnected the engine and began preparing for the fix

You guys sure do know how to talk a fella out of a kit.It's looking like Gary ZM had there B team on this one I think I will stick with Revell or Trump for the 109's I look forward to the final presentation.

[HubertB]

1 hour ago, KevinM said:

You guys sure do know how to talk a fella out of a kit.It's looking like Gary ZM had there B team on this one I think I will stick with Revell or Trump for the 109's I look forward to the final presentation.

You are being harsh on ZM, Kevin. Although the sheer complexity of the kit, typical of ZM, makes it prone for building mistakes, as Gary and Bill have shown, it is still probably the best 1/32 109 you can find on the market (and I say that whilst I will never ever buy or build any Nazi model).

It’s no secret the kit was designed for ZM by Radu Brinzan, who knows his trade, both modelling and real aviation. Definitely not a « B » team there. I respect his work immensely, even if I am not a fan of the character he too often displays on LSP …

Hubert

[harv]

1 hour ago, HubertB said:

You are being harsh on ZM, Kevin. Although the sheer complexity of the kit, typical of ZM, makes it prone for building mistakes, as Gary and Bill have shown, it is still probably the best 1/32 109 you can find on the market (and I say that whilst I will never ever buy or build any Nazi model).

It’s no secret the kit was designed for ZM by Radu Brinzan, who knows his trade, both modelling and real aviation. Definitely not a « B » team there. I respect his work immensely, even if I am not a fan of the character he too often displays on LSP …

Hubert

I agree.  Radu is a great guy. Met him twice. Very talented !....harv

[GazzaS]

Thanks for all of the support.  The more I read at TOS written by Radu, the more I realize that the tail was an "effect" that came out clumsily.

This is what they wanted you to see.

But you can't do that with plastic.  For the modeler to reproduce that effect, he would have to have the deft hands of a surgeon and a lot of luck.  It could have been done with a 2-piece tailplane.  But they went for the one-piece tailplane, making it impossible for us to trim those parts successfully.  

 

[KevinM]

3 hours ago, HubertB said:

no secret the kit was designed for ZM by Radu Brinzan, who knows his trade, both modelling and real aviation.

I know of him and definitely not a B team person Hubert but maybe I need less engineering ?

[harv]

I know what you mean.... harv

[Martinnfb]

2 hours ago, GazzaS said:

Thanks for all of the support.  The more I read at TOS written by Radu, the more I realize that the tail was an "effect" that came out clumsily.

This is what they wanted you to see.

But you can't do that with plastic.  For the modeler to reproduce that effect, he would have to have the deft hands of a surgeon and a lot of luck.  It could have been done with a 2-piece tailplane.  But they went for the one-piece tailplane, making it impossible for us to trim those parts successfully.  

 

This museum example is an extreme, flares are bent to oblivion. I wanted to react over on LSP and collected few pictures to support my argument, but withdrew afterwards. Radu open that post for a reason.

Few pics of the in service planes. The fitment was actually so tight that on some examples you can often notice a rub marks after frequent adjustments.

pay close attention to the scuff mark

just to nail it in deeper, here is restored example with undamaged fairing, tight fit in't ?

[GazzaS]

F*** me, Martin!  How do you find these pics?

[Martinnfb]

 Another beautiful example. That's not a shadow, it is the original (dark) paint under the flare exposed by adjustment of the horizontal stabilizer. All of this is readily available underneath your fingertips. 🥷

EDIT: on the sidetone, check out the sliding window, that was passing for decades unnoticed. where are the experts now?

[GazzaS]

3 minutes ago, Martinnfb said:

 Another beautiful example. That's not a shadow, it is the original (dark) paint under the flare exposed by adjustment of the horizontal stabilizer. All of this is readily available underneath your fingertips. 🥷

EDIT: on the sidetone, check out the sliding window, that was passing for decades unnoticed. where are the experts now?

I wonder if that was a post-factory modification.  Check your PM, Martin.

[Martinnfb]

That poor thing went through hell already 

 

[Martinnfb]

 

[Peterpools]

I still feel the overall issue isn't A or B team as we know how well qualified Radu is. For me the issue is just cramming way too many details and parts into a tight space, add in molding tolerances and presto - fit issues. You can't have a scale engine in a scale space as the thickness of the plastic is thicker then the scale thickness of the aluminum. Tamiya came close with its ultra-thin cowlings but I'm still willing to bet the engines are a bit undersized.

For me, the answer is: leave the cowlings off or include an engine plug replacement so that the engine can be displayed off the model. Last option: start trimming the parts on the engine until the cowling will fit and can be glued into place.  

 

 

[GazzaS]

13 minutes ago, Peterpools said:

I still feel the overall issue isn't A or B team as we know how well qualified Radu is. For me the issue is just cramming way too many details and parts into a tight space, add in molding tolerances and presto - fit issues. You can't have a scale engine in a scale space as the thickness of the plastic is thicker then the scale thickness of the aluminum. Tamiya came close with its ultra-thin cowlings but I'm still willing to bet the engines are a bit undersized.

For me, the answer is: leave the cowlings off or include an engine plug replacement so that the engine can be displayed off the model. Last option: start trimming the parts on the engine until the cowling will fit and can be glued into place.  

 

 

My fit issue with the front end was something I must have done between the cockpit and firewall...  which is only a couple pieces.  The wing spar holding pieces and the slot for them in the fuselage define where the canopy will sit. I did have to chop the 131's to get the back part of the hood to fit.  It just shits me that I cannot determine where I went wrong.

[BlrwestSiR]

Martin and I have been discussing the kit offline and it got to the point where I've been sent one to review by the admin here. It arrived yesterday and the first thing I did was take a look at the tail. My feeling is that ZM overemphasized the fairing that's at the front of the vertical rudder. This, plus just enough of a loose tolerance in the fit and you get the huge step you encountered. At the moment, I think the best approach to fixing the vertical tail is to lightly sand down that fillet until it's more reflective of the pics Martin has posted. I'm planning to get the review done this weekend if all goes to plan. 

Carl

 

[KevinM]

3 hours ago, Peterpools said:

For me the issue is just cramming way too many details and parts into a tight space, add in molding tolerances and presto - fit issues.

When I built Trumps "American Beauty" engine fit sucked(scraped) I left out the gunbays and boy talk about a build almost nill of filler life became easy.

[Peterpools]

Gaz

Maybe it wasn't you at all but even if it was and you went back to review the instructions, you should be able to see what your error was. If it's that's hidden and you can't see it now, most likely you wouldn't see when doing the initial assembly, the fault lay with ZM's instructions. 

No matter what for me, a soon to be rooky 109 builder, your struggles and comments are so important. Just can't thank you enough for all your commentary and pointing out the how and what to look for at each step of the build.

 

  

 

[JohnB]

I just received my kit and I have to say, it certainly has a butt-load of parts! 🤪

[Peterpools]

John

It surely is

 

[harv]

I agree with John. Thanks Gaz...harv

[BlrwestSiR]

There is definitely a ton of them. And some are tiny too. 

[Peterpools]

19 hours ago, BlrwestSiR said:

Martin and I have been discussing the kit offline and it got to the point where I've been sent one to review by the admin here. It arrived yesterday and the first thing I did was take a look at the tail. My feeling is that ZM overemphasized the fairing that's at the front of the vertical rudder. This, plus just enough of a loose tolerance in the fit and you get the huge step you encountered. At the moment, I think the best approach to fixing the vertical tail is to lightly sand down that fillet until it's more reflective of the pics Martin has posted. I'm planning to get the review done this weekend if all goes to plan. 

Carl

 

Carl

Looking forward to your review and don't be gentle.